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  1. Account suspended
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    02 Dec '15 23:396 edits
    Originally posted by Landisqueen170
    Yea, yea, yea....America is the root of all that is wrong in the world. I get it.

    Just a friendly reminder - your nation has repeatedly stood side by side with ours in carrying out missions and addressing conflicts around the globe for decades 😉

    Offer solutions. Quit finger-pointing from your comfy home and tell us how to fix the world.
    No its clear that you do not get it.

    Spare me your war jingoism, it has no effect on me. I am interested in facts and the facts are that you supported and armed the Mujihadeen to fight those godless commies the Russkies. What did they become? Thats right our friends the Taliban! well done and congratulations.

    You invaded Iraq and created a power vacuum and what eventually surfaced? The Islamic state! Well done and congratulations. What was your oil doing under that Iraqi sand?

    You supported and armed Syrian rebels and what happened to those weapons? Thats correct they found their way to the Islamic state! Congratulations and well done. Now while I realize that the truth of the matter may be difficult for you to take or even acknowledge it seems, those are the facts.

    I have already told you I do not have a solution nor do I profess to proffer one. Why that is difficult for you to grasp I cannot say.

    Perhaps if you stopped arming Syrian rebels with weapons to give to the Islamic state and let President Assad fight them, it may be the course of wisdom, but of course thats right they are Shia and your big buddies those fun loving Saudis who buy all those weapons from Lockheed Martin wouldn't be very pleased now, would they?

    And every {Islamic state] fighter reportedly has three sets of M16 rifles and body armour, captured from Syrian and Iraqi government forces.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/11052919/How-Isil-is-funded-trained-and-operating-in-Iraq-and-Syria.html
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    02 Dec '15 23:51
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    No its clear that you do not get it.

    Spare me your war jingoism, it has no effect on me. I am interested in facts and the facts are that you supported and armed the Mujihadeen to fight those godless commies the Russkies. What did they become? Thats right our friends the Taliban! well done and congratulations.

    You invaded Iraq and created ...[text shortened]... solution nor do I profess to proffer one. Why that is difficult for you to grasp I cannot say.
    Your thinking is very simplistic. Your nation has been a strong ally of ours, and accompanied us on mission after mission around the globe. This you cannot explain away.
    So please - either share some blame... if there is blame to be given, or quit teaming up with us and renounce us as your ally.

    And then, after that, once you are off your soapbox, contribute positively by offering some solutions.
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    03 Dec '15 00:02
    Originally posted by Landisqueen170
    Your thinking is very simplistic. Your nation has been a [b]strong ally of ours, and accompanied us on mission after mission around the globe. This you cannot explain away.
    So please - either share some blame... if there is blame to be given, or quit teaming up with us and renounce us as your ally.

    And then, after that, once you are off your soapbox, contribute positively by offering some solutions.[/b]
    Just because we helped you screw everything up don't make it right.
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    03 Dec '15 00:04
    Originally posted by Landisqueen170
    Your thinking is very simplistic. Your nation has been a [b]strong ally of ours, and accompanied us on mission after mission around the globe. This you cannot explain away.
    So please - either share some blame... if there is blame to be given, or quit teaming up with us and renounce us as your ally.

    And then, after that, once you are off your soapbox, contribute positively by offering some solutions.[/b]
    First of all I have no need of explaining away. I renounce all warmongers. I don't care where they are from.

    No people like you need to hear the facts of what your country has created. 250,000 Iraqi widows! Thousands of American mothers and fathers who lost sons and daughters. Why? because of corporate greed. If you cannot handle that then its your affair not mine.

    I will say this for the last time, I do not have any solutions, but i tell you this, giving arms to Syrian rebels is not helping one bit. Btw I don't think someone who posts texts that read like the front cover of the Daily mail should be accusing other people of being simplistic, just saying.
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    03 Dec '15 00:07
    How is robbie in any way 'responsible' for what actions the UK military has taken in recent years in concert with US forces when he does not condone [1] what those US actions have been, and [2] what those UK actions have been. robbie has presented some ideas that people should rebut. Simply saying 'your country does it too, robbie' is not a proper argument. It would be like saying I have to defend the death penalty because I live in a country that has it, and that I am a hypocrite for opposing capital punishment when I live in a country that executes people. It's not a proper argument.
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    03 Dec '15 00:09
    Originally posted by Captain Strange
    Just because we helped you screw everything up don't make it right.
    Well, I agree. lol Although we have not screwed "everything" up...that is a bit of a stretch 😉
    I am not at all pleased with many of our foreign policy decisions in the last decade +. In hindsight, there is much that we "screwed up" along with the help of other great nations. Find me a nation with a flawless record, with perfect foreign policies, void of any hidden agendas or self-serving motives. None exist.
    But as a relatively young nation, we have contributed to this world in a positive way more often than not.
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    03 Dec '15 00:38
    Originally posted by FMF
    How is robbie in any way 'responsible' for what actions the UK military has taken in recent years in concert with US forces when he does not condone [1] what those US actions have been, and [2] what those UK actions have been. robbie has presented some ideas that people should rebut. Simply saying 'your country does it too, robbie' is not a proper argument. It w ...[text shortened]... ng capital punishment when I live in a country that executes people. It's not a proper argument.
    Says who? You? Oh yes, the JJE. hmmmm.
    I say it is a fine argument.
    I did not say he was "responsible" for the actions of the UK military. What I suggested was that before he throws spears at my nation, he should take a hard look at his own. It is imperfect, too.
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    03 Dec '15 00:401 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    First of all I have no need of explaining away. I renounce all warmongers. I don't care where they are from.

    No people like you need to hear the facts of what your country has created. 250,000 Iraqi widows! Thousands of American mothers and fathers who lost sons and daughters. Why? because of corporate greed. If you cannot handle that then i ...[text shortened]... front cover of the Daily mail should be accusing other people of being simplistic, just saying.
    Who is a warmonger? Not I, my friend. I despise war.

    So we should all bury our heads in the sand and hope these evil people just leave us alone? That's a GREAT plan. People like you criticize until the cows come home, offer no ideas as to how to "fix" things, and never recognize anything good that America does.

    Ask the Kurds about our involvement.
    They wept when our soldiers pulled out. They are true freedom fighters. They have always shown complete gratitude towards our nation. They do not see us as invaders. Our soldiers and theirs are like one. Our governmental policies screwed them, no doubt, but still they view America in a favorable light.

    You cannot explain away your country's shoulder-to-shoulder relationship with America. If your country and its citizens believe that we are that bad of a nation, then they should not stand with us - ever.
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    03 Dec '15 00:48
    Originally posted by Landisqueen170
    I did not say he was "responsible" for the actions of the UK military. What I suggested was that before he throws spears at my nation, he should take a hard look at his own. It is imperfect, too.
    robbie has been absolutely consistent in his objection to the military escapades of the UK as long as I have known him. He has been taking "a hard look at his own nation" for years ~ perhaps his entire adult life. So, that aside, do you have any answers to the arguments he has offered?
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    03 Dec '15 00:49
    Originally posted by Landisqueen170
    So we should all bury our heads in the sand and hope these evil people just leave us alone?
    If this is your 'argument' in favour of bombing ~ in so far as what is being considered right now ~ is it not a rather clumsy mix of false dilemma and straw man?
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    03 Dec '15 00:55
    Originally posted by FMF
    robbie has been absolutely consistent in his objection to the military escapades of the UK as long as I have known him. He has been taking "a hard look at his own nation" for years ~ perhaps his entire adult life. So, that aside, do you have any answers to the arguments he has offered?
    I am waiting for him to explain to me, a "warmonger," a plausible solution to the current ISIS problem that excludes war. It is only fair. If you one says that war is not the answer, then an alternative to war should be offered.

    I would wholeheartedly embrace any other viable option other than war.
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    03 Dec '15 00:56
    Originally posted by Landisqueen170
    You cannot explain away your country's shoulder-to-shoulder relationship with America. If your country and its citizens believe that we are that bad of a nation, then they should not stand with us - ever.
    Why do you think robbie has to "explain" it? He opposes it and - as far as I can remember - always has. You citing his "country's shoulder-to-shoulder relationship with America" is not an argument that addresses robbie's opposition to the bombing.
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    03 Dec '15 01:021 edit
    Originally posted by Landisqueen170
    I am waiting for him to explain to me, a "warmonger," a plausible solution to the current ISIS problem that excludes war.
    I am sure he will respond to this. I haven't called you a "warmonger".

    I am talking about something else. I am asking you how you saying "before [robbie] throws spears at my nation, he should take a hard look at his own" can possibly be said to represent a counter argument to what he has said if you are also stating that you don't think "robbie is responsible for the actions of the UK military".
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    03 Dec '15 02:331 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Why do you think robbie has to "explain" it? He opposes it and - as far as I can remember - always has. You citing his "country's shoulder-to-shoulder relationship with America" is not an argument that addresses robbie's opposition to the bombing.
    He did not just say that he opposed bombing, he also laid out a bunch of criticisms regarding my country's actions. I called them simplistic because there is no legitimate way to reduce down the complexities of some of these multifaceted situations in a few mere sentences. Unless one, of course, just blames America for everything. Then it is quite easy 🙂

    My remark about being shoulder-to shoulder with his nation was simply to point out that if America is so misguided, so self-absorbed and so hypocritical, then he ought to explain why his country routinely stands with us.

    If he wishes to blame and criticize America, he should equally blame and criticize his own country because they have been one of our greatest allies and supports.
  15. SubscriberFMF
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    03 Dec '15 02:44
    Originally posted by Landisqueen170
    If he wishes to blame and criticize America, he should equally blame and criticize his own country because they have been one of our greatest allies and supports.
    But robbie does. He does blame and criticize his own country. That's my point. He has done for years. You saying, over and over again, things like "he should equally blame and criticize his own country" is more of a deflection than a rebuttal of what he's said, because ~ as you well know, now ~ he does "blame and criticize his own country".
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