02 Dec '09 08:32>
I recently entered into a debate about the abraham incident. You mostly know it:
Abraham had only a son, God wanted to test abe's faith(as if he didn't know it already) so he asked him to kill that son(Isaac). Abraham did so and just as he was about to butcher the isaac, god stopped him and said: "now i finally know what is in your heart thanks to this test because reading your mind or knowing the future is way out of my league. you don't really have to kill him" Happy ending, nobody gets hurt(except for the poor goat/sheep whatever sacrificed instead), riches are given to abe and so on.
Now for the purpose of this debate, let's assume god exists. My questions are initially these:
-How do we know when god is speaking to us?
Surely the people of ancient times gave more meaning to their dreams but still didn't do anything they dreamt. I am sure abe had once a dream where god asked him to cover himself in leaves and then clock like a chicken. did he do it? did god came with a follow up dream to tell him not to? or did abe used common sense and dismissed the dream? and if so why didn't he dismissed the "kill your son" dream.
Also can't satan disguise himself as god and ask abe to go on a killing spree to prove his faith?
Which leads me to the second question:
-Is god allowed to break his own rules? Should he? Would he be a jerk if he does?
He tells us killing is wrong. He forbidds killing. What manner of a test is "kill your son"? Can you imagine? "abe, i want you to kill your son to prove your faith." "But god, you said no killing" "Forget what i said, i say now kill your son". Is going against the teachings of god, even at his request, considered an act of faith?
Which leads me to the third question:
-Would you worship the supreme being if he asked you to murder babies each month?
Suppose now comes a immensely powerful being capable of anything. for all you know, he is omnipotent. he demands human sacrifices, raping children and leaving food caseroles in the office fridge until they go sentient. Would you worship him? or would you rather die than worship an evil god? Even assuming that god(the omnipotent, godlike creature newly arrived that the christian god is not stopping) is assuring anyone that it is for the greater good whatever he is demanding and we should do it because our puny intellect cannot comprehend his plan?
Abraham had only a son, God wanted to test abe's faith(as if he didn't know it already) so he asked him to kill that son(Isaac). Abraham did so and just as he was about to butcher the isaac, god stopped him and said: "now i finally know what is in your heart thanks to this test because reading your mind or knowing the future is way out of my league. you don't really have to kill him" Happy ending, nobody gets hurt(except for the poor goat/sheep whatever sacrificed instead), riches are given to abe and so on.
Now for the purpose of this debate, let's assume god exists. My questions are initially these:
-How do we know when god is speaking to us?
Surely the people of ancient times gave more meaning to their dreams but still didn't do anything they dreamt. I am sure abe had once a dream where god asked him to cover himself in leaves and then clock like a chicken. did he do it? did god came with a follow up dream to tell him not to? or did abe used common sense and dismissed the dream? and if so why didn't he dismissed the "kill your son" dream.
Also can't satan disguise himself as god and ask abe to go on a killing spree to prove his faith?
Which leads me to the second question:
-Is god allowed to break his own rules? Should he? Would he be a jerk if he does?
He tells us killing is wrong. He forbidds killing. What manner of a test is "kill your son"? Can you imagine? "abe, i want you to kill your son to prove your faith." "But god, you said no killing" "Forget what i said, i say now kill your son". Is going against the teachings of god, even at his request, considered an act of faith?
Which leads me to the third question:
-Would you worship the supreme being if he asked you to murder babies each month?
Suppose now comes a immensely powerful being capable of anything. for all you know, he is omnipotent. he demands human sacrifices, raping children and leaving food caseroles in the office fridge until they go sentient. Would you worship him? or would you rather die than worship an evil god? Even assuming that god(the omnipotent, godlike creature newly arrived that the christian god is not stopping) is assuring anyone that it is for the greater good whatever he is demanding and we should do it because our puny intellect cannot comprehend his plan?