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  1. 16 Jan '07 23:54
    Originally posted by tmetzler
    Why not give the Dutch a try?
    Agreed. It can lead to complete disaster, but it's never boring.
  2. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    17 Jan '07 00:06
    Originally posted by YUG0slav
    booo! KID all the way!!!!! My logic is that it's an uncompromising opening and you ARE a dragon player, so you clearly don't want to draw.
    Agreed. I love the Dragon, and I am a KID player. 😀
  3. Subscriber Marinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    17 Jan '07 00:19
    Originally posted by Squelchbelch
    Treat 1.d4 with the utter contempt it deserves. They want a plodding, strategic game, then fine!
    [fen]r2q1rk1/pbpnnpbp/1p1pp1p1/8/2BPPB2/2N2N2/PPPQ1PPP/R3R1K1 w - - 0 10[/fen]
    White is so much better in this diagram, why would you want to head for this position?
  4. 17 Jan '07 01:18
    Originally posted by YUG0slav
    booo! KID all the way!!!!! My logic is that it's an uncompromising opening and you ARE a dragon player, so you clearly don't want to draw.
    phhhht you thinkthe KID is oncompromising, then you should see the dutch leningrad. Current theory says that this opening (Dutch Leningrad) is for the most part the KID with +1 tempo. Besides, doesnt pushing f pawns give you King Gambit players some sick, twisted joy inside anyways (I by the way fear pushing f pawns in any e4 game, but I for some reason feel perfectly safe with it in this one). Give it a shot, if you don't like it, try the Classical dutch or Stonewall.
  5. 17 Jan '07 02:03
    Originally posted by !~TONY~!
    Agreed. I love the Dragon, and I am a KID player. 😀
    You guys are confusing the hell out of me, I was happy going back to the Benko but now I'm a bit tempted to take another look at the KID. Although it's not like I couldn't use both, Benko's not too difficult and there's not too much theory, although a couple of lines like the 4.cxb5 a6 5.Nc3 axb5 6.e4 b4 7.Nb5 d6 8.Bc4 (Stupid so called "Nescafe Frappe Attack"😉 are apparently quite sharp.

    As for the KID, I really never got how it was so uncompromising or attacking. I'll have to look it over again, but I don't think it's something that can be played without theoretical knowledge.
  6. 17 Jan '07 02:14
    Originally posted by !~TONY~!
    Agreed. I love the Dragon, and I am a KID player. 😀
    Well I've seen you play the Semi-Slav, KID, Benoni, Nimzo Indian, and I think the Benko too. 😛
  7. Standard member rotk
    Orc slayer
    17 Jan '07 03:58
    Originally posted by !~TONY~!
    Agreed. I love the Dragon, and I am a KID player. 😀
    KID is my favorite, but I'm having problem OTB against the samisch, so against very strong players I decided to play grunfeld. the cool thing about the KID is you can do either c5 or e5, going on either side!
  8. 17 Jan '07 05:21
    Originally posted by rotk
    KID is my favorite, but I'm having problem OTB against the samisch, so against very strong players I decided to play grunfeld. the cool thing about the KID is you can do either c5 or e5, going on either side!
    joe gallagher suggests a line where you gambit the c pawn vs the samisch

    why is the KID uncompromising? Well the best example I can think of is in lines of the Classical variation where black launches his kingside pawns up the board (likely giving up a few to open some lines) and possibly sac a bishop on h3, all for the sake of mate. Of course if he fails, he'll lose the endgame.

    of course, there's always those dull ones who play the fianchetto variation...
  9. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Just another day
    17 Jan '07 05:41
    Originally posted by cmsMaster
    You guys are confusing the hell out of me, I was happy going back to the Benko but now I'm a bit tempted to take another look at the KID. Although it's not like I couldn't use both, Benko's not too difficult and there's not too much theory, although a couple of lines like the 4.cxb5 a6 5.Nc3 axb5 6.e4 b4 7.Nb5 d6 8.Bc4 (Stupid so called "Nescafe Frappe At ...[text shortened]... in, but I don't think it's something that can be played without theoretical knowledge.
    I hate memorizing openings, and I do ok with KID. I'm not in your class, but here are some successful KID games I've played:

    Game 2660701
    Game 2474171
    Game 2264320
    Game 1484309
    Game 1296218
  10. 17 Jan '07 05:50
    in that 4th game (from top to bottom) why 6. ...Nbd7?
  11. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Just another day
    17 Jan '07 06:04
    Originally posted by YUG0slav
    in that 4th game (from top to bottom) why 6. ...Nbd7?
    To attack the e-Pawn.
  12. 17 Jan '07 06:06
    Originally posted by YUG0slav
    joe gallagher suggests a line where you gambit the c pawn vs the samisch

    why is the KID uncompromising? Well the best example I can think of is in lines of the Classical variation where black launches his kingside pawns up the board (likely giving up a few to open some lines) and possibly sac a bishop on h3, all for the sake of mate. Of course if he fa ...[text shortened]... the endgame.

    of course, there's always those dull ones who play the fianchetto variation...
    Play 6)...c5 I used to play the KID though quite badly. Both times I played 6)...c5 against the samisch they played 7)d5. Both had ~300 points on me (USCF). I lost both games.

    Look for Graham Burgess' "Kings Indian for the Attacking Player". That is the first time I saw the Samisch sacrifice in a book.
  13. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    17 Jan '07 06:17
    Originally posted by rotk
    KID is my favorite, but I'm having problem OTB against the samisch, so against very strong players I decided to play grunfeld. the cool thing about the KID is you can do either c5 or e5, going on either side!
    Sack the c-pawn! The fianchetto variation isn't boring if Black doesn't want it to be. You can play the crazy lines with ..e5, exd4, ..a6 and ..b5! And just get nuts on him.

    Cms, the KID is probably the most uncomprosing and aggressive variation Black's got. Check out the classical lines where Black closes the game with ..f4 and just attacks...Check out the Samisch lines where Black sacks the c-pawn, and most of the time the e-pawn, and actually looks to an endgame, and then sometimes wins! Check out the four pawns attack! Here's a fun game and Gallagher's Suggested Improvement in the Classical to wet your whistle:


    1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d5 Ne7 9. Be3 Nd7 10. Ne1 f5 11. f3 f4 12. Bf2 g5 13. a4 a5 14. Nd3 b6 15. b4 axb4 16. Nb5 Nf6 17. Be1 g4 18. Bxb4 g3 19. h3 Bxh3 20. gxh3 Qd7 21. Qc2 Qxh3 22. Bd1 Ng6 23. Qg2 Qh6 24. Qh1 Nh4 25. Ne1 Nxe4 26. Ng2 Rf5 (26... Nxf3+ 27. Bxf3 Qxh1+ 28. Kxh1 Nf2+ 29. Rxf2 gxf2 30. Rf1 Rxa4 31. Ba3 Rxc4 32. Rxf2) 27. fxe4 f3 28. Bxf3 Nxf3+ 29. Rxf3 Qxh1+ 30. Kxh1 Rxf3 31. Kg1 Rb3 32. Nxc7 Rf8 33. Be1
    Bf6 34. Nb5 Be7 35. Ra3 Rxa3 36. Nxa3 Rf3 37. Nc2 Bg5 38. Bb4 h5 39. Nce1 Rf6 40. a5 bxa5 41. Bxa5 Rf2 42. Bc7 Be7 43. Ne3 Re2 44. N1g2 Ra2 45. c5 Ra1+ 46. Nf1 h4 47. Nxh4 Bxh4 48. Bxd6 Re1 49. c6 Rxe4 50. c7 Rc4 51. Bxe5 Kf7 52. Nxg3 Bxg3

    And Cms, Check out Radja's recent wins over the KID Killer Loek Van Wely and Shirov! 😀
  14. 17 Jan '07 10:19
    Wise words by tony, Radjabov really showed them and at the risk of repeating myself check out chessvibes.com to see a masterclass by Radja in the KID
  15. 17 Jan '07 12:27
    I am still an advocate of the benko. I just looked at games explorer and after
    1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 b5
    in my 65 games
    White wins: 37%
    Draws: 25%
    Black Wins: 38%

    Considering the fact that few lower rated players play d4 and then play into this (usually 2. Nc6 or something equally silly) I consider that to be a solid score.

    Unfortunately the 10 Rb1 (or is it 11 Rb1) and a few other lines are very theory intensive. They are nowhere near the level of the dragon, but there are a couple of critical lines.