1400 beats 2400 IM Ling Fong with KIA.

Sorry had to post this as GP is always slagging off the KIA!

Also, as computer use is the main topic at moment my point is that for me a patzer to beat this program there must be something wrong? (and before trolltastic comes along this is in no way a showboat) I just thought an interesting example of how bad computer program is?

Hi Plopzilla

That was not a KIA.


That is the Pirc set-up v the London System. The delayed e2-e4 makes
it a much more flexible set up.

The KIA (a genuine chess oxymoron) starts with 1.e4 allowing the f1 Bishop to develop.


if White sees 1...c5 or 1...e6 then a tempo is wasted by g3,
f3 and h3 is weakened and the Bishop ends up being blocked by the very
pawn that freed him in the first place. It's illogical and it's rubbish.
A waste of the White pieces.


It is played by selfish theory dodgers who do not care about the poor
IM's and GM's who write opening books on the Lopez, Scotch, Winawer,
Dragons and Nafdorf.

Somebody has to buy them, if we all stopped then they would stop churning
them out by the bucket load every month.
Imagine a world without chess opening books?

The KIA crowd are tight fisted, cowardly, lazy and ruining the economy.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Hi Plopzilla

That was not a KIA.

[fen]rn1qkb1r/ppp2ppp/4pn2/3p1b2/8/3P1NP1/PPP1PPBP/RNBQ1RK1 b kq - 0 5[/fen]
That is the Pirc set-up v the London System. The delayed e2-e4 makes
it a much more flexible set up.

The KIA (a genuine chess oxymoron) starts with 1.e4 allowing the f1 Bishop to develop.

No it absolutely is a KIA. In order for it to be a Pirc/London the colors would have to be reversed. I even ran it through several databases to double-check that there wasn't a transposition that I didn't know about. They all said it was A07 which is a KIA.

And traditionally, the KIA starts with 1. Nf3. 1. e4 is a move order finesse. You would never say the KIA starts with 1.e4... well, if you wanted to be correct you wouldn't.

I don't know if you're trying to be funny or what. As usual, your posts make no sense whatsoever. I just thought I would clear up some confusion in your post in case some less experienced players were reading it. They might actually believe what you said.

Cool story Bro!

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/entries/icons/original/000/000/346/969638-cool_story__bro_super.jpg?1244744838

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Hi Plopzilla

That was not a KIA.

[fen]rn1qkb1r/ppp2ppp/4pn2/3p1b2/8/3P1NP1/PPP1PPBP/RNBQ1RK1 b kq - 0 5[/fen]
That is the Pirc set-up v the London System. The delayed e2-e4 makes
it a much more flexible set up.

The KIA (a genuine chess oxymoron) starts with 1.e4 allowing the f1 Bishop to develop.

[fen]rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP/ ss opening books?

The KIA crowd are tight fisted, cowardly, lazy and ruining the economy.

If the KIA starts with 1. e4 (it doesn't, the "real" KIA starts 1. Nf3) then why doesn't the limp wristed black version, the KID, start 1. d4 e5?

The 1. e4 "KIA" is played by white when black doesn't let him play his favourite Boring Game and he doesn't have the balls to play 2. d4. This should really be called the "Hiding Behind the Sofa Attack". 1. Nf3 leaves white with the flexibility to take the opening into a KIA, a Reti (fun if black is daft enough to play dxc4, not fun if he plays d4), an English or even a queen's pawn opening. 1. e4 just forces white to play some theory laden variation of something with a silly name (Ruy Lopez? Never heard of him.)

come on GP... that is a KIA all day long!

- we need to get Paul L in here to confirm.. )

I think a KIA has to start with 1.e4. 1.Nf3 is a Reti, though of course all manner of transpositions are possible. The KIA is basically a system for White to open with 1.e4 and then avoid most mainline Black defences as it can be played against the French, Caro-Kann and Sicilian.

I don't think this game transposed to a KIA because White didn't play e4 until move 8.

I was confused by the weak play of the "IM" until I Googled and found that "IM Ling Fong" is actually a computer program whose playing strength has clearly been overestimated. White played pretty well, but a real IM would have torn him limb from limb.

Originally posted by Data Fly
I think a KIA has to start with 1.e4. 1.Nf3 is a Reti, though of course all manner of transpositions are possible. The KIA is basically a system for White to open with 1.e4 and then avoid most mainline Black defences as it can be played against the French, Caro-Kann and Sicilian.

I don't think this game transposed to a KIA because White didn't play e4 un overestimated. White played pretty well, but a real IM would have torn him limb from limb.

Reti and KIA can both start with 1. Nf3. The Reti "happens" if white plays c4 at some point, whereas it is a KIA if white plays e4 at some point. Of course, the Reti c4 may also result in transposition to an English, in which case c4 and e4 might be played, and there could be a further transposition to a queen's pawn opening at some point. Kramnik plays 1. Nf3. intending a Catalan for example.

The KIA can be used after 1. e4 to avoid Black's favourite setup in a non-e5 defence but it only really works if black plays e6, that's why Fischer used it against e6 Sicilians.

Hi Savage.

Sorry if I failed to add the words 'reversed' making it clear enough for you
to understand.

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 g6 3. Bf4 Bg7 4. e3 O-O 5. Bd3 d6


That is a Pirc set up v the London System and that is the exact reverse
of the position Plopzila posted.

Now run that through several databses and see what it says.
(it's all done with mirrors.) 😉

A genuine KIA is 1.e4 followed by 2.d3 3.Nd2 etc....
v Sicilains, French and Kann's. It's the great attraction of this opening.
Of course you have to be ready for 1...d5 but you cannot get everything
you want in Chess.

Playing 1.Nf3 can transpose into almost anything except a Birds (1.f4).
If you want a KIA then the 1.e4 method cuts out a lot of the so called
Anti-KIA systems. (see below for just one of them.)

After 1.e4 v c5, c6 or e6. Black has a set pawn structure, especially after 1.c5.
You can go for a clean KIA. You will not always get a pure KIA with 1.Nf3 or 1.g3.

Players often mix up the KIA and the KId.

The KID differs from the KIA in as much as Black delays/never plays. ...e5.
It often depends on where White places his c1 Bishop. Also White has a pawn
centre for Black to plot against. Not always the reversed case with the KIA.

I often think they have the names mixed up.
In the KID Black is on the attack v White's pawn structure.
In the KIA White is defending against Black's opening knowledge.

A basic anti - KIA system v 1.Nf3

KIA or not, openings like this bore my socks off. Where's the gambiteering or kamikaze saccing? 😉

Originally posted by Diophantus
If the KIA starts with 1. e4 (it doesn't, the "real" KIA starts 1. Nf3) then why doesn't the limp wristed black version, the KID, start 1. d4 e5?

The 1. e4 "KIA" is played by white when black doesn't let him play his favourite Boring Game and he doesn't have the balls to play 2. d4. This should really be called the "Hiding Behind the Sofa Attack". 1. N ...[text shortened]... heory laden variation of something with a silly name (Ruy Lopez? Never heard of him.)

Diophantus says it all. The KIA began with 1. Nf3, but in the 1960's players learned they could transpose into a KIA after 1. e4.

When you see games starting 1. e4 and turn into KIA's, it is usually referred to as KIA by transposition.

I think the confusion comes from the fact that the KIA has been very effective against the French, and the positions usually come from the 1. e4 e6 move order, so people naturally assume that's how it starts, even when the game actually started 1. Nf3 d5 and transposes to a French.

As a side note, Fischer played the KIA from the 1. Nf3 move order from 1957 to 1963, and then moved to the 1. e4 move order from 1963 on, when he played it against the French or against the Sicilian when black played an early ...e6.

I often play what is effectively a Pirc or Modern Reversed, but I would never use that description for a game where black never played an early ...e5.

In any event, this is nomeclature, not chess theory, so anyone can call it anything. It seems that reinventing names for old openings and writing a book about it is all the rage these days, and it's only a matter of time before I pick up a copy of Starting Out: The Pirc Attack secondhand somewhere!

Originally posted by morgski
KIA or not, openings like this bore my socks off. Where's the gambiteering or kamikaze saccing? 😉

As requested, with the 1. e4 move order, against one of the greatest French Defense players of all time. GM Evgeni Vasiukov is white, and he deserves to be better known. He is an artist.