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  1. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    25 Feb '12 01:24
    What are the matchup rates for white using a computer engine to win the
    following game?

    1.d4 e6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 d6 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.e4 exd5 6.cxd5 g6 7.f4 Bg7 8.Bb5+ Bd7
    9.e5 dxe5 10.fxe5 Ng8 11.Nf3 Bxb5 12.Nxb5 Qa5+ 13.Nc3 Nd7 14.36 fxe6
    15.dxe6 Ndf6 16.O-O Rd8 17.Qb3 Qb6 18.Ne5 Qc7 19.Bf4 Nh5 20.Qa4+ 1-0

    For Proper Knob or anyone who has a program to check.
  2. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    25 Feb '12 01:38
    If this is a game from the site, then a fair play ticket should be submitted. It is inappropriate to use the forum for what could be construed as an accusation.
  3. 25 Feb '12 01:48
    I would say no. The game is following Littke-Alvarez, New York Open, 1993 up to the 13th move.

    Fritz 11 considers 14 e6 as dubious.

    I don't have Rybka, so I can't tell what it thinks of that move.
  4. 25 Feb '12 01:57
    Now I have Fritz analysing quickly but...

    on move 16 it suggests Bg5 instead of O-O

    on move 17 Qe1 instead of Qb3

    So the answer seems definitely to be no.
  5. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    25 Feb '12 02:06
    Originally posted by w0lver1ne
    I would say no. The game is following Littke-Alvarez, New York Open, 1993 up to the 13th move.

    Fritz 11 considers 14 e6 as dubious.

    I don't have Rybka, so I can't tell what it thinks of that move.
    You are right. White is a young teenager in the chess club I just joined.
    This was an over the board game in which White used 14 minutes off his
    clock in winning this game and I was watching him. So I think there was
    no way he could have used a computer engine unless he is a magician.
  6. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    25 Feb '12 02:09
    Originally posted by Paul Leggett
    If this is a game from the site, then a fair play ticket should be submitted. It is inappropriate to use the forum for what could be construed as an accusation.
    No, I am not trying to accuse anyone. I was just trying to find out why
    some people do.
  7. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    25 Feb '12 02:32
    good question....
  8. Standard member hedonist
    peacedog's keeper
    25 Feb '12 05:01
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    No, I am not trying to accuse anyone. I was just trying to find out why
    some people do.
    I try not to accuse anyone but it is hard sometimes when it is so blatant. I have played one player OTB who is on the top page of this site. He is rated 1300 OTB.

    What do you think is happening there?

    I know what I think.

    What do you think?
  9. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    25 Feb '12 05:46 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by hedonist
    I try not to accuse anyone but it is hard sometimes when it is so blatant. I have played one player OTB who is on the top page of this site. He is rated 1300 OTB.

    What do you think is happening there?

    I know what I think.

    What do you think?
    They have quick ratings and regular ratings based on the amount of
    time for the games. I believe the game has to have at least 45 minutes
    per player to get a regular rating. I play better games the more time I
    know I have to think on the moves. Some people have better memories
    and can think faster than others but may not be as good at analyzing
    over long periods of time. I think it depends on the person. If you
    watched that video on Magnus Carlsen you should understand how the
    visualization and memory helps with OTB play. A person not having
    good visualization and memory can make up for that in correspondence
    type chess because one can move the pieces around on an analyze board
    and look up openings and endings he can't remember in books. Having
    more time to analyze each move before making the move should mean
    a higher rating for everyone on RHP if the resources available are used.
    However, this fact does not mean that cheating doesn't occur and it may
    be detected if the same moves are made that a computer engine would
    make is continually made by the suspected cheater. Why one would wish
    to cheat when no money is involved is hard to understand for me.
  10. 25 Feb '12 07:42
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    They have quick ratings and regular ratings based on the amount of
    time for the games. I believe the game has to have at least 45 minutes
    per player to get a regular rating. I play better games the more time I
    know I have to think on the moves. Some people have better memories
    and can think faster than others but may not be as good at analyzing
    over ...[text shortened]... cheater. Why one would wish
    to cheat when no money is involved is hard to understand for me.
    I would LOVE to hear your THEORY on why these people behave this way Mr. Hinds.


    Q
  11. 25 Feb '12 09:32
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    No, I am not trying to accuse anyone. I was just trying to find out why
    some people do.
    Because of games like this one Game 8179299.
  12. Standard member hedonist
    peacedog's keeper
    25 Feb '12 10:49 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    They have quick ratings and regular ratings based on the amount of
    time for the games. I believe the game has to have at least 45 minutes
    per player to get a regular rating. I play better games the more time I
    know I have to think on the moves. Some people have better memories
    and can think faster than others but may not be as good at analyzing
    over cheater. Why one would wish
    to cheat when no money is involved is hard to understand for me.
    This is the kind of thinking that makes people suspicious.

    It is well known that the difference between a club player and a master increases in fast games. Simply because the master has an automatic feel for what is the right or wrong move. Pattern recognition is the key. It doesn't matter that I have one minute or one week to make a move, I'm never gonna play like a master.

    Go on ICC and watch two Grandmasters playing blitz.
    The level of play still far exceeds the level of the average game by two club players at regular time controls.
  13. Subscriber Proper Knob
    Cornovii
    25 Feb '12 11:14
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    No, I am not trying to accuse anyone. I was just trying to find out why
    some people do.
    Because some people cheat, simple as that. When someone with an 1800 OTB rating gets higher engine match up rates than a Soviet GM winning the ICCF World Championship people might get a little suspicious.
  14. 25 Feb '12 18:29
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    Because some people cheat, simple as that...
    Exactly right.

    Here are indications that some people think, quite reasonably IMO, are indicative of cheats:

    1) High matchup rates vs. computers
    2) Very uneven quality of games, especially, but not limited to, playing really horrible games when they first join the site and then, a few months later, are playing at 2000+ level.
    3) Coming onto the forums and appearing to not know much about chess, despite fairly impressive ratings
    4) Maintaining a 2000+ rating, despite moving very fast or playing a large number of games.

    I've said before that I think some people make accusations on these criteria too easily and with too much certainty, but some cases are easier than others, too.
  15. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    25 Feb '12 19:53
    Originally posted by Pacifique
    Because of games like this one Game 8179299.
    You picked one of my early games when I was playing like I would OTB.
    Since then I have learned to use the analyze board before I move and
    an opening book as well as look for similiar games by the grandmasters.
    I am going to be playing that way again to get practice for OTB chess
    since I have joined the USCF and a chess club again after 30 years.