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"The World Champion Veselin Topalov is outraged by the suspicious behavior of his opponent Mr. Vladimir Kramnik who in actual fact takes his most significant decisions in the bathroom. "
Now that is my kinda guy. I've come up with some of my greatest insights and potentially patentable ideas in the bathroom.
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Originally posted by tmetzlerMy opinion remains the same.
[b/]So after having read that. If you were Kramnik's manager or lawyer would you still say the following?
Originally posted by no1marauder
If I was the lawyer for Kramnik and the contract states what Kramnik's people are saying, I'd tell him he might be on good legal grounds but I'd advise him to play. It's not always worth it to stand on "princi y appeal his case, or accept a forfeit. A lose, lose situation if I have ever seen one.
If the forfeit is removed, I'm sure Topalov won't play. So the issue is moot.
Originally posted by tmetzlerIt is quite understandable that Topalov is outraged about Kramnik walking in about of the room after every move. Psychologically, it must be unnerving and stressful for Topalov to concentrate on the game when Kramnik comes and goes (this would break Topalov’s concentration).
"The World Champion Veselin Topalov is outraged by the suspicious behavior of his opponent Mr. Vladimir Kramnik who in actual fact takes his most significant decisions in the bathroom. "
However, Kramnik’s tendency to go to the bathroom is not suspicious in itself. The atmosphere must be very stressful, especially with the stakes so high; additionally, Kramnik is facing an opponent who does not like him. The bathroom probably is the only place where Kramnik feels secure and away from distractions.
Kramnik has viable reasons to be upset.
Topalov and Co. are insinuating that Kramnik cheated. Preposterous. Kramnik’s play was clearly human; he made mistakes that an engine wouldn’t have made (although engines make mistakes too). I wouldn’t expect an exceptionally high correlation between Kramnik’s moves with any engine. I also believe that Kramnik plays the game honorably – it would totally against his character for him to cheat. Kramnik doesn’t need to cheat and Kramnik will not cheat – Topalov and Co. know this.
Kramnik has nothing to prove here – he has shown that he can play and beat the best. He probably has no desire to play an opponent who has shown him so much disrespect. Out of obligation to the chess community, if for no other reason, I wish he would play out the match.
The largest fault lies with FIDE. Everything (from the board layout, toilets used, chair color, lighting; sadly, even the number of games played) is negotiable in a World Championship match, except for the rules of classical chess itself. Once all parties have signed to a contract, and agreed with the conditions of the match – there will (should) be no changes to the agreement unless both parties (Topalov and Kramnik) agree to the change. Only in chess…is setting up a Championship match is a real problem. A championship should have: a set number of games, a standard time control (of course), and provide a fair playing environment. The rules apply to both players, so there shouldn’t be so many problems. The championship should happen on a set timetable (such as on an annual basis). If there is not an outright winner after a set number of games, the current champion retains the title. The possibility of deciding the title based on blitz is extremely absurd.
Perspectives – Priorities:
FIDE – saving the match
Topalov – winning the match (willing to use psychological means?!)
Kramnik – winning the match (wishes to play the game under the conditions of the contract)
However, Topalov and Kramnik may leave the match at any time; FIDE must comply with the demands of both players to save the match (in FIDE's view). (In my view) FIDE must not accede to the demands of one player or the other without the consent of both parties, and should enforce strict penalties if one player or another decides to leave the match for unacceptable reasons.
I can just imagine…
Topalov: My opponent uses his bathroom. This is problem.
FIDE: No! We’ll do anything.
Topalov: He must use my bathroom. (meanwhile accuses Kramnik of “suspicious behavior&rdquo😉
FIDE: Uh…OK.
Kramnik: This is really stupid. I don’t need this. Good-bye. (Everybody leaves, upset.)
Kirsan (FIDE pres.): Yes! I don’t have to give away a million dollars! (Blames Kramnik for everything.)
Solution: Somebody give Kramnik a diaper, and in future games, the players have to sit at the board from the beginning to the end of the game.
They should just sit down and play - the game of chess was (1) meant to be played in one sitting, (2) in an environment which is conducive for both players. Achieving these two conditions should not be so difficult, and should be acceptable to both players.
Originally posted by YugaYuga: It is quite understandable that Topalov is outraged about Kramnik walking in about of the room after every move. Psychologically, it must be unnerving and stressful for Topalov to concentrate on the game when Kramnik comes and goes (this would break Topalov’s concentration).
It is quite understandable that Topalov is outraged about Kramnik walking in about of the room after every move. Psychologically, it must be unnerving and stressful for Topalov to concentrate on the game when Kramnik comes and goes (this would break Topalov’s concentration).
However, Kramnik’s tendency to go to the bathroom is not suspicious in itself. The ...[text shortened]... ving these two conditions should not be so difficult, and should be acceptable to both players.
Tough titty. Every tournament I've ever been in or heard about, allows the players to leave the board whenever they feel like it. Topalov filed a complaint; the FIDE letter found no merit in it but then went about changing the rules of the match anyway. Kramnik should have blown it off, but the attitude of FIDE and Topalov towards the legitimate World Championship apparently pissed him off too much. It's a shame; the match had been quite interesting and dramatic.
Originally posted by YugaSince they chose to fight kindergarten style (Topalov more so than Kramnik, but Kramnik's reaction was not exactly mature either), they should both get nappies, and a Lego room should be provided.
Solution: Somebody give Kramnik a diaper, and in future games, the players have to sit at the board from the beginning to the end of the game.
Originally posted by YugaTotally agree!!! They just want to win in any possible way!! but for me kramnik was ddisrespect, and that upset anyone. topalov was one of my favorites now he is gone for me!!
It is quite understandable that Topalov is outraged about Kramnik walking in about of the room after every move. Psychologically, it must be unnerving and stressful for Topalov to concentrate on the game when Kramnik comes and goes (this would break Topalov’s concentration).
However, Kramnik’s tendency to go to the bathroom is not suspicious in itself. The ...[text shortened]... ving these two conditions should not be so difficult, and should be acceptable to both players.
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Originally posted by no1marauderYes, you are correct - players may leave the board whenever they wish (Kramnik may do so as many times as he desires); this can becoming quite annoying, but I would agree that is no reason for Topalov to threaten to leave the match. I do not believe that Topalov actually thinks that Kramnik is cheating; I feel quite sure that Topalov strongly believes that Kramnik is not cheating. However, Topalov probably cannot believe that he is losing the match, and therefore, he is venting his annoyance on Kramnik. I concur with your assessment of the situation.
Every tournament I've ever been in or heard about, allows the players to leave the board whenever they feel like it. Topalov filed a complaint; the FIDE letter found no merit in it but then went about changing the rules of the match anyway. Kramnik should have blown it off, but the attitude of FIDE and Topalov towards the legitimate World Championship apparently pissed him off too much. It's a shame.
Originally posted by YugaI think it's best that the players set their own terms that they are comfortable with. However I do agree with you. Once both players have agreed to the terms they should not be changed without compelling reasons and both players' consent. What FIDE did was an outrage. Especially since the ruling indirectly charged Kramnik of cheating in a situation where no concievable method of cheating could be devised. It is an obvious indication of bias on FIDE's part and just goes to further provide Kasparov's justification for leaving FIDE.
Only in chess…is setting up a Championship match is a real problem. A championship should have: a set number of games, a standard time control (of course), and provide a fair playing environment. The rules apply to both players, so there shouldn’t be so many problems.
Does anyone remember how racially biased FIDE was in the 84-85 Karpov vs. Kasparov [Russian vs. Armenian Jew] matches. FIDE has a history of corruption and seriously lacks proper restraint.
TOPALOV GUYS DOES NOT MIND KRAMNIK GOING TO THE BATHROOM 50 TIMES 100 TIMES OR 1,000 TIMES.
BUT DURING HIS VISITS ASSURANCE MUST BE GIVEN HE IS NOT CHEATING.
Topalov does not want extra rights for himself. He doesn’t mind being escorted by FIDE personnel when going to the WC.
Topalov wants only FAIR play. That’s all.
Kramnik’s refusal to play means only one thing SOMETHING FISHY is going on there while in the bathroom.
How about if the sport players refuse to take drug test and claim that is insulting to them?
Seems like many people don’t care about fair play, but to have nice feelings about this or that person.
Also Topalov was ready to play no matter if Krimnik’s private bathroom was opened.
May I say you are getting in denial with yourself.
Some people here don't want to be realistic at all.
……
Topalov showed again he is true chess player, a true man who Chose to play this match. He could have easily declined it if he just wanted to keep the title.
My conclusion FAIR PLAY MUST BE ASSURED.
There is serious reason why Kramnik does not like that.
Originally posted by Los AngelesTopalov is a crybaby, sore loser who threatened to quit the match if the rules he agreed to weren't changed. I've lost all respect for this sham "Champion".
TOPALOV GUYS DOES NOT MIND KRAMNIK GOING TO THE BATHROOM 50 TIMES 100 TIMES OR 1,000 TIMES.
BUT DURING HIS VISITS ASSURANCE MUST BE GIVEN HE IS NOT CHEATING.
Topalov does not want extra rights for himself. He doesn’t mind being escorted by FIDE personnel when going to the WC.
Topalov wants only FAIR play. That’s all.
Kramnik’s refusal to play ...[text shortened]... conclusion FAIR PLAY MUST BE ASSURED.
There is serious reason why Kramnik does not like that.
Originally posted by Los AngelesSorry Lossy but you're way off the mark on this one. FIDE and Team Topalov are clearly in the wrong. Once the facilities were agreed to by both players they should not be changed without mighty good reason, and upfront agreement from both participants. Furthermore, it was Topalov who demanded that the monitors not sit in the bathrooms. If he's concerned about foul play there, then the answer is to reinstate monitors, not to force a change in the facilities. I think this is nuts though--what on earth could Topalov think might be going on in there that is such a terrific aid to Kramnik?
TOPALOV GUYS DOES NOT MIND KRAMNIK GOING TO THE BATHROOM 50 TIMES 100 TIMES OR 1,000 TIMES.
BUT DURING HIS VISITS ASSURANCE MUST BE GIVEN HE IS NOT CHEATING.
Topalov does not want extra rights for himself. He doesn’t mind being escorted by FIDE personnel when going to the WC.
Topalov wants only FAIR play. That’s all.
Kramnik’s refusal to play ...[text shortened]... conclusion FAIR PLAY MUST BE ASSURED.
There is serious reason why Kramnik does not like that.
BTW, if you want to talk about distractions have you noticed the ties that Topalov's been wearing? If I had to spend hours sitting across from the one he wore in game 3, I'd be running for the bathroom as well. Sheesh!
Originally posted by leisurelyslothMaybe he read that newspaper article from 1927: http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3371
BTW, if you want to talk about distractions have you noticed the ties that Topalov's been wearing? If I had to spend hours sitting across from the one he wore in game 3, I'd be running for the bathroom as well. Sheesh!