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  1. Standard member HomerJSimpson
    Renouned Grob Killer
    28 Jan '07 02:11 / 2 edits
    I just read an annotated grubenstein game, and Grandmaster Keene says, "G4 is the worst possible move you can start out with, even worse than f3 and h4"

    I was wondering if the rest of you concur about that sentiment or have other ideas.

    Here's the link to the game, he beat the author of, "The Killer Grob":

    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1026281
  2. Standard member Diet Coke
    Forum Vampire
    28 Jan '07 02:13 / 1 edit
    No way! e4 is far worse.

    Especially at my level.
  3. 28 Jan '07 02:17
    yes he got it right, g4 makes you volnourable to queen or bishop h4
  4. Standard member Dies Irae
    I Love U
    28 Jan '07 02:34
    It seems like the most damage you can do to your king side in the first move.
  5. Standard member Yuga
    Renaissance
    28 Jan '07 04:23 / 2 edits
    Keene does fine analysis of his games on chessgames.com

    Regarding 1. f3:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnes_Opening

    Regarding 1. g4:
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1327812&kpage=1

    From "whatthefat" of chessgames.com

    Ray Keene does not agree in the notes to M Basman vs Keene, 1981:

    Ray Keene: "I have never been quite sure whether this is the worst opening move or whether that dubious title belongs to 1 f3. At least after 1 f3 d5 White can play 2 f4, or after 1 f3 e5 2 e4 Bc5 3 f4!?, but 1 g4 gives no such opportunity. One of the best ways to manhandle this miserable move is to play a sharp gambit against it."


    And kibitzing on another game (M Basman vs Miles, 1981) he says: "actually tony miles and i had a race to see who cd beat basman fastest in this tournament with black if he opened 1g4-and i won by one move -basman resigned on move 20 in our game and after blacks 21st in tonys game!!the grob really is the worst possible opening."

    The point is, while 1.h4?! generally wastes a tempo, it's not seriously weakening the king's position, unlike 1.g4? and 1.f3?


    [Of course there is not a refutation for 1. g4 or 1.f3, but there are refutations for some of the lines for sure. Although an opening may not be objectively best, it may still be playable. Basman would not be as effective as he is if the opening were unsound; white maybe is only slightly worse in the 1. g4 lines ?!]

    One may play some shoddy openings and still do well against high level opposition. Case in point:

    http://www.chessbase.com/games/iccf1.htm

    (According to chessbase.com)
    "Beber", handle of IM Robert Fontaine
    "Ural", IM Alexander Reprintsev (42), FIDE rating: 2428 (June 2001)
  6. 28 Jan '07 13:44
    I like Basman but not the Grob. You have to know essentially everything to play it effectively. Even then you're got a slightly marginal position against reasonable play by black. You're basically hoping your opponent will screw up.

    That said I've seen some people get hammered by it. A friend of mine plays it almost exclusively. He wallows in the 1200's USCF but his games are never boring!
  7. 28 Jan '07 16:49
    Originally posted by giantrobot
    I like Basman but not the Grob. You have to know essentially everything to play it effectively. Even then you're got a slightly marginal position against reasonable play by black. You're basically hoping your opponent will screw up.

    That said I've seen some people get hammered by it. A friend of mine plays it almost exclusively. He wallows in the 1200's USCF but his games are never boring!
    Keene and Miles were experts at unusual flank openings.

    You should play your opponent and not the board. Basman was foolish to play it against them.

    g4 is a good opening against a player who only relies on theory without truly understanding the nature of the positions generated. A grob player will have prepared for all the main book lines. The "theorist" is overconfident and expects to gain an easy win. Its not so easy as you are playing on their turf.

    For players under 1700, the killer grob is a better opening than e4. There are so many traps for the unwary.

    Surely Knight h3 must be the worst?
  8. 28 Jan '07 19:01
    Originally posted by HomerJSimpson
    I just read an annotated grubenstein game, and Grandmaster Keene says, "G4 is the worst possible move you can start out with, even worse than f3 and h4"

    I was wondering if the rest of you concur about that sentiment or have other ideas.

    Here's the link to the game, he beat the author of, "The Killer Grob":

    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1026281
    There's a guy at my club that plays 1. G4 or 1. B4 almost always, and he wins more than 50% of his games.
  9. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    29 Jan '07 00:12
    A great opening

    Game 2946194

  10. 29 Jan '07 00:22
    Originally posted by Dragon Fire
    A great opening

    Game 2946194

    That game's such a joke though.
  11. Standard member HomerJSimpson
    Renouned Grob Killer
    29 Jan '07 00:30
    Originally posted by cmsMaster
    That game's such a joke though.
    Yep about as bad as this one

    Game 2932663
  12. 29 Jan '07 00:40
    Originally posted by HomerJSimpson
    Yep about as bad as this one

    Game 2932663
    I feel worse at chess after watching that!
  13. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    29 Jan '07 00:46
    Originally posted by cmsMaster
    That game's such a joke though.
    Thats the way the Grob is!

    Fun! Fun! Fun!

  14. Standard member HomerJSimpson
    Renouned Grob Killer
    29 Jan '07 02:37
    Originally posted by Dragon Fire
    Thats the way the Grob is!

    Fun! Fun! Fun!




    If you enjoy to lose lose lose I guess
  15. Standard member Dragon Fire
    Lord of all beasts
    29 Jan '07 09:17
    Originally posted by HomerJSimpson



    If you enjoy to lose lose lose I guess
    I have not lost a Grob here yet as white.

    Maybe soon..............

    ... but I lose other openings as white.