Originally posted by EveRyDayI could argue the opening ideas all day, but I was glad to see 8...O-O, I don't think it's black's best try there - still playable for sure though, so I didn't feel a need to comment much about that.
Okay. For one, this post hasn't been more about it's title than the other we talked on. 😛 😉
About the CMS - Whirlpool game.
I would probably go for 5... Nf6 instead of d6, too - but that's just personal preference.
I would deviate with 8...Nh5
It's a personal preferance, but I've been a little skeptic with castling in sharp KG lines. Even if the n ...[text shortened]... say. There might be further interesting moves, but to be honest I stopped seeking there.
About the "white has to decide letting black take on h4 after castling" are you talking about after I castle? I hadn't actually planned on castling in this line.
What's the point of b5? What's wrong with Qxf4, it's delivered with a threat that I have to do something about, so development and timing doesn't seem to be an issue with that move, not to mention that white isn't even close to threatening mate, is development the only reason you don't like Qxf4?
Why hide the king on h8? I don't get the idea of having the king on h8 instead of g8, wouldn't mobilizing the queenside be more beneficial for black?
I also don't get c5, could you expand?
After Qxg4 the game's just getting started!
What's the point of b5? What's wrong with Qxf4, it's delivered with a threat that I have to do something about, so development and timing doesn't seem to be an issue with that move, not to mention that white isn't even close to threatening mate, is development the only reason you don't like Qxf4?Ok I'll say it again. After 8...Nh5 you need to develop some pieces. Bb5 and Nc3 are bad, with Bb5 being the better of the two, where black can sacrifice half his pieces and still have compensation for it - but you are not looking for that, you want to attack. Nxg4 falls, too. You don't have much option left but castling. You can argue about that but if you don't I wouldn't be in your place.
Why hide the king on h8? I don't get the idea of having the king on h8 instead of g8, wouldn't mo ...[text shortened]...
I also don't get c5, could you expand?
After Qxg4 the game's just getting started![/b]
And again: the point of b5 is what I wrote. Getting counterchances. If you don't see how Nxf4 is a little too much for my taste, you won't until you experience on your skin with black. And I'm not being a moron here, but you really have to experience what taking too much pawns in a gambit means. 😛 What do you plan with black after Qxf4 Nh2?
Back to b5. Because it's attacking, and if white takes it it opens up a line. I may be wrong but your king is on c3 and if black can take over the attacking you might be in trouble. A planned knight sacrifice on c6 later to bring black queen over to c6 and an open line for the rook? c5 is the same reason: opening up the position. King on c3=vulnerable if black can open up the position. But first black has to play Kh8 to protect his king from the inconvenient lines after Rg1. After defending that black can take over the attack by opening up the position.
Those are just natural moves breeded from dogmas.
A short summary again:
- resist the desire to grab more pawns in exchange for attack.
- protect the king before the attack
- open up the position with sacrifices because of the vulnerable position of the white king.
Originally posted by EveRyDayWell, I still don't get how taking that pawn is negative - at all.
Ok I'll say it again. After 8...Nh5 you need to develop some pieces. Bb5 and Nc3 are bad, with Bb5 being the better of the two, where black can sacrifice half his pieces and still have compensation for it - but you are not looking for that, you want to attack. Nxg4 falls, too. You don't have much option left but castling. You can argue about that but if you ...[text shortened]... en up the position with sacrifices because of the vulnerable position of the white king.
About Nh2 - Seems to me black can develop soundly and not have to worry. What do you think is wrong with a move like c6? I don't see how white's got any great winning chances there. Anyhow, I was white, and I never even considered a move like Nh2 - I don't even get the reasoning behind it - but Fritz loves it, mind helping me out?
I think my king safety was fine after Kc3, It's going to take black a long time to break open the queenside, then to develop and get everything set up for a mating net...No chance, I just can't see him setting anything up in time. This bothers me - how is that king even close to being in danger?
Once again, you say black has to play Kh8 to prevent inconvenient lines after Rg1 - but how would that really affect things, if black should be rushing to crack everything open shouldn't he not waste tempi on moves like Kh8?
Questions about the summary:
-Black's playing against the gambit, all he needs to do is catch up in development, and hang on to the extra wood, right?
-I still don't get why the king is safer on h8 than g8.
-And I don't understand how the white king is unsafe on c3.
Sorry if I'm missing something completely obvious, but you're telling me moves and I'm just not following the explanations behind some of them.
Originally posted by EveRyDayMind explaining your moves? I'll explain mine too, and you can tell me where my reasoning may be flawed.
15...Kh8, then?
I think I'd play Na3 here, white has to develop pieces, connect the rooks, and should already have a plan. My plan at this point is based on some ideas like control of the e and g files, continued control of the central squares through moves like Re1, Qe2, Rg1, and Nc4.
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Originally posted by EveRyDayI only know dragon lines.
Btw. You know the tons of lines in sicilian with opposite side castling where white plays Kb1 even though he is striking to kill as fast as possible.
Is it just a tempo loss too?
And that seems to be a different situation - black's got no pawn breaks and is already developed, and it improves white's defense since he's on the queenside and Qa5 and attacks down the a/b files are quite common.
This position is far too tactical and sharp - in such positions you need concrete counting.
Here I would play 16...a5
The reason is plain and simple I want to play Bb4+ then after booting the king I threaten with Qxd5. I'll play for Be6 - aiming my pieces at your king.
If I hadn't played Kh8, you could grasp on the possibility of raiding the g file. I just wanted to take your only possible threat away. Because now no matter what you do Na3 or anything else I'll grab the initiative. Now with a5.
The whole thing is psychological, too. I make you think you're still pulling the lines and that I'm dumb playing Kh8, but in fact I took away your only attack and started a counterattack. A b5 pawn sacrifice is one of my favs anyways in a lot of builds. Like my sicilian game against Touareg or in the main lines of our worked out philidor with g6. 😛
And btw. This is why I play all openings I can. Sometimes I get into trouble, but I gain much more. You never know what you can use in other games. Like the b5 sacrifice here - an idea from another opening, but it works here, too. I might not considered it at the first glance if I didn't know the typical positions in the mentioned philidor.
Originally posted by EveRyDayHmm, so then my assessment of the position and my move were both accurate.
This position is far too tactical and sharp - in such positions you need concrete counting.
Here I would play 16...a5
The reason is plain and simple I want to play Bb4+ then after booting the king I threaten with Qxd5. I'll play for Be6 - aiming my pieces at your king.
If I hadn't played Kh8, you could grasp on the possibility of raiding the g file. I ju ...[text shortened]... Because now no matter what you do Na3 or anything else I'll grab the initiative. Now with a5.
Let's see...Qe2 is my move
If your idea is to create immediate mate threats I should look to trade off the queens while at the same time connecting my rooks, controlling open files, and attempting to take down the center.
Is this an accurate assessment?
Originally posted by EveRyDayAre you seriously telling me to play as many openings as possible?
And btw. This is why I play all openings I can. Sometimes I get into trouble, but I gain much more. You never know what you can use in other games. Like the b5 sacrifice here - an idea from another opening, but it works here, too. I might not considered it at the first glance if I didn't know the typical positions in the mentioned philidor.
No I tell you it's my way. I try everything and get many ideas in similar games even from a different opening.
Everyone has to find their own way of play. Mine is just try everything. 🙂
After Qe2 there's one problem.
17...Bb4
You have to play Kb3 and then I avoid queen trade. First by taking on d5 then dodging to d6 with the queen, threatening Be6.
But first 17...Bb4+