Game 5435982
I dont know if this will be much help for you guys but hopefully it should be a good lesson of what NOT to do in this sort of position.
Looks like an example of neglecting the kingside and letting the pressure build up to a snap. Classy finish, though.
h5 gxh5 Nxh5 Rd2 is something i had not considered before, interesting idea. Is this all book? Is there a 'main line' from here and is the above the beginning?
Candidate moves: 18...h5, 18...a5, 18...Rb8+, 18...Rc8, 18...Ba4, 18...Nxe4, 18...Nxg4
lines for each:
18...h5 19.g5 Nh7 20.Kc1 Rc8 (not forced, but i'm trying to settle for something)
18...h5 19. gxh5 Nxh5 followed by 20...Rc8 or Rb8
18...a5 the point of this move is to hit the b4 square as in 19.h5 Rb8+ 20.Ka1 Rb4
18...Rb8+ 19.Ka1 h5 20.g4 Nf7 or 19.Kc1 a5 followed by Rb4
18...Rc8 19.h5, i don't see this going anywhere i'd want it to go but maybe white has nothing
18...Ba4 19.h5, i don't like 19.h5 in this variation either...i'll keep looking at it 19...Ne7 20.hxg6 fxg6 21.Bh6 Rb8+ 22.Ka1 Bh8...at least we saved the bishop and have Ne5 or Nc5 coming
18...Nxe4! i like these type of things if/when they work out... 19.fxe4 Bxg4 20.Rf1 Qb7+ 21.Kc1 Qxe4 three pawns for a piece! if 20.Rg1 Bf3 and we still get the pawn
18...Nxg4! same as above
someone mentioned 18...Be6?:
18.Be6 Nxe6 ewww...
i think as long as we have our bishops we have chances, so i'm not fond of 18.Be6
the three pawns for a piece looks fun, but i doubt the soundness and we're already down an exchange
Ba4 line doesn't look to bad and should probably be considered seriously as well as the a5 line.
h5 is probably the better choice as i have it in my database, but i hate the possibility of a knight on h7
Ba4 and we have great pieces...but a worse king position
I hadn't considered h5 g5. So obvious as well... i thought only of gxh5.
The knight sac for three pawns looks bad. Purely on principle - we are down an exchange so we need compensation for that. We need to build pressure, and I think keeping as many peices on the board as we can reasonably do is probably the right thinking. With your knight for three pawn exchange our only hope would become pawn promotion with our e and f pawns in particular. I do not think that it is realistic that we would achieve this. How pesimistic of me... but I think it's a nice idea that would just fizzle into a quick loss.
Still swaying (heavily) towards h5.
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Originally posted by moteutschg5 & Nb5 respectively I guess? Both look like losing a pwan at first glance.
Why not [b]d5 or Be6?[/b]
...h5 was my initial thought here but Rd2 looks like a very dangerous response.
Hmmm, a bit more thought required. Think it's got to be between Rc8 & h5 though.
edit: ...Be6 and white could play Nxe6 attacking our queen and relieving the pin. As someone else said on this thread, we're an exchange down so need to keep hold of our pieces I think.
Here is the best line I could physically come up with as Black, after quite a bit of pain and suffering in other lines:
18. h4 Rb8+ 19. Ka1 h5 20. g5 Ne8! 21. Rb1 Rc8! 22. Rb2/Rb4 d5! (The idea) 23. exd5 Nd6, with good counterplay.
I'd advise against any type of ...Nxe4/g4 business. We're already down an exchange and a pawn, so even if we get 3 pawns for the piece, we're still getting housed.
I'd advise against any type of ...Nxe4/g4 business. We're already down an exchange and a pawn, so even if we get 3 pawns for the piece, we're still getting housed.[/b]I have looked into Ne4 a little bit and I think its good we get three pawns plus all our minor pieces are extremely active and whites look a bit awkward.
I didn't mean to really persuade anybody into voting for Nxe4, mostly I just thought the line was cool.
But seriously, I'm probably gonna vote for one of these: h5, Rb8+, a5, or Ba4.
With h5 and Rb8+ being favored the most. These moves will likely be played in some order at some point anyways(assuming our opponent doesn't get h5 in first).
edit: ok...my new favorite line is 18...Ba4 19.h5 Nd7 20.hxg6 fxg6 21.Bh6 Rb8+ 22.Ka1 Bh8 every piece is doing its part, we have plenty of open lines... look at it! it looks great
Originally posted by ResigningSoon23. Bf8! and Black looks to be in a world of hurt, for instance, 23...Bf6 24. g5! Kxf8 25. gxf6, when Black should almost always lose this on account of his bare kingside. Losing the dark squared bishop is bad news.
edit: ok...my new favorite line is 18...Ba4 19.h5 Nd7 20.hxg6 fxg6 21.Bh6 Rb8+ 22.Ka1 Bh8 every piece is doing its part, we have plenty of open lines... look at it! it looks great
Originally posted by !~TONY~!Are you looking at the same line as me? 23.Bf8? Rxf8 ....errr, what are you smoking?
23. Bf8! and Black looks to be in a world of hurt, for instance, 23...Bf6 24. g5! Kxf8 25. gxf6, when Black should almost always lose this on account of his bare kingside. Losing the dark squared bishop is bad news.