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  1. 30 Nov '08 01:29
    This is a continuation of Thread 104248.

    PAWN RIOT has just sent the move 18.h4, leading to the following position.

  2. 30 Nov '08 01:37
    Im not making a decision yet but it looks like Rc8 is the move.
  3. 30 Nov '08 01:40
    Rc8+ is good, i like that before the e5 push that way the bishop can transfer to f8.
  4. 30 Nov '08 01:42 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Carterson
    Rc8+ is good, i like that before the e5 push that way the bishop can transfer to f8.
    do you mean Rc8 or Rb8+? I think we shouldnt move our dark squared bishop because it makes the queen uncomfortable.
  5. Standard member ptobler
    Patzer
    30 Nov '08 02:22 / 5 edits
    Tony likes 18...h5 19. g5 Nh7 20. Ka1 Rc8 or 20. Kc1 Rc8 21. Qd3 Nf8 22. Nb3 Be6

    The analysis to Socko-Stocek given in NIC Yearbook 85 goes: 18. h4 h5 19. gh5 Nh5 with compensation for the material

    Smith-Hagarova, Ceska Trebova, 2007 went: 18. h4 h5 19. gxh5 Nxh5 20. Rhg1 Qb7+ 21. Qb3 Qa8 22. Kc1 Rb8 23.Qd3 Qb7 24.Kd2 Qb4+ 25. Ke2 Qa4 etc.

    So the value of the move 18...h5 must be seriously considered before we make our move

    Ozturk-Grossmann, corr., 2004 (CP.2004.P.00039 1.10.2004) went:
    18. h4 h5 19. g5 Nh7 20. Qd3 Rc8 21.Nb3 Be6 22.Bd4 Bxc4 23.Qc3 Be2 etc. (so Stocek was not really the first to play 17...Qc7 ....)

    These are the only games in my database after 17...Qc7 18. h4
  6. Standard member ptobler
    Patzer
    30 Nov '08 03:26
    I vote 18...h5: for the time being, pending further analysis
  7. 30 Nov '08 04:18
    Be6 is perhaps possible
  8. Standard member clandarkfire
    Grammar Nazi
    30 Nov '08 04:25
    I vote h5
  9. 30 Nov '08 05:41
    We should never move on the wing we are attacking and do as it doesn't even exist, only mmoves theres when it is necessary, this is what I heard.

    I have test it, and I've only accelerate their attacks leading to far worst position then anything.

    I vote for Rc8
  10. Standard member black beetle
    Black Beastie
    30 Nov '08 08:53
    Originally posted by ptobler
    Tony likes 18...h5 19. g5 Nh7 20. Ka1 Rc8 or 20. Kc1 Rc8 21. Qd3 Nf8 22. Nb3 Be6

    The analysis to Socko-Stocek given in NIC Yearbook 85 goes: 18. h4 h5 19. gh5 Nh5 with compensation for the material

    Smith-Hagarova, Ceska Trebova, 2007 went: 18. h4 h5 19. gxh5 Nxh5 20. Rhg1 Qb7+ 21. Qb3 Qa8 22. Kc1 Rb8 23.Qd3 Qb7 24.Kd2 Qb4+ 25. Ke2 Qa4 etc.

    So the va ...[text shortened]... he first to play 17...Qc7 ....)

    These are the only games in my database after 17...Qc7 18. h4
    Tony likes it and I like it too, but the White is not forced to play 20.Kc1; a simple Rd2 over there and the control of the open file is enough for the White.

    But I vote 18. ...h5 too; I like the position of the Black anyway, although this funny Dragon is powerless compared to the superb Scheveningen.

    Did anybody noticed that leggedy beastie robbie? Lus time I saw im woosie ee whas dyinoe flu
  11. 30 Nov '08 11:11
    I vote h5
  12. 30 Nov '08 12:40
    People voting so quickly is dangerous and likely to lose the game for us.

    We need to talk it through. If Rc8, does h5 by white not look dangerous?

    With Rc8 we get a hold on the c file and this pressure is directed towards a potentially weak c2 pawn. Though for now this is well protected. Rc8 h5 and then white can open up the h file which though I can see no immediate danger, it is a weakness. So we have to decide, are there other moves which are worth the danger of an h-file attack and all the pressure that may follow it?

    I am swaying towards h5, where we threaten the g pawn and therefore pretty much forced is gxh5 Nxh5.

    White then has many options. Either rook to g1 look attractive, though really i have no idea what we would expect.

    I see the g6 pawn as weak following h5, as a gxh5 Nxh5 and then the knight is the only thing blocking an h-pawn advance which i feel is white's main threat - even if it is not immediate i feel this is white's aim.

    Notable white weaknesses here would be;

    Open b file onto the king
    Knight pin onto the queen with g7 bishop

    And if the d-rook moves it may be worth noting the backward f3 pawn as playing f4? would los eout to Nxf4! Bxf4 Qb6+ and the knight falls. In fact.. an f-pawn advance now would lose to Ng3. Just thinking out loud here, but it is worth having these sorts of thing in mind when making a plan.

    I'm not sold on the credibility of the exchange sac earlier, but it is certainly fun.
  13. 30 Nov '08 12:43
    18. ... h5
  14. 30 Nov '08 13:12
    Originally posted by black beetle
    Tony likes it and I like it too, but the White is not forced to play 20.Kc1; a simple Rd2 over there and the control of the open file is enough for the White.

    But I vote 18. ...h5 too; I like the position of the Black anyway, although this funny Dragon is powerless compared to the superb Scheveningen.

    Did anybody noticed that leggedy beastie robbie? Lus time I saw im woosie ee whas dyinoe flu
    thank you for your concern beetle dude, sadly i did not die but find myself recovering, perhaps a little delusional but none the worse.

    yes either way i think we got to try to stop white opening the h file, so either way as in the Toni benoni variation 18...h5 19. g5 Nh7 or as in the smith/hagarovah game 18...h5 19. gxh5 Nxh5 is good enough

    18...h5 and the dragon lives!
  15. Standard member black beetle
    Black Beastie
    30 Nov '08 13:25
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    thank you for your concern beetle dude, sadly i did not die but find myself recovering, perhaps a little delusional but none the worse.

    yes either way i think we got to try to stop white opening the h file, so either way as in the Toni benoni variation 18...h5 19. g5 Nh7 or as in the smith/hagarovah game 18...h5 19. gxh5 Nxh5 is good enough

    18...h5 and the dragon lives!
    "Sadly", why "sadly"??

    You 're in the army now, let's smoke this PAWN RIOT, let us do or die