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  1. 28 Feb '12 16:25 / 1 edit
    Q was kind enough to offer a rematch with the idea of adding annotations afterwards, and even though I received a beating last time out I thought it was a good plan. The result was the same, but the game was very different. I knew from our previous game that Q is a sensible chess player, so I chose to open with the Grob to see how he performed out of his comfort zone.

    Game 9075980




    I should probably add Q to that thread of "Who's your nemesis", while I caused him to think more this game, I never really caused him problems. Until next time then...
  2. 28 Feb '12 16:43
    Funny "café-chess"

    I don´t like 14. c4 - maybe Ne4 or Bxf6

    You could play longer with 34. King to g3, I think
  3. 28 Feb '12 19:27
    generally i don't like the idea of playing a questionnable opening system to bring a higher rated opponent out of his comfort zone. i believe it's much more advicable for the lower rated player to try to steer the game into an opening where you know the general ideas and plans

    that said i think you (morgski) did fairly well mostly because PhysIQ chose a quiet approach.

    You lost an early pawn which could have been prevented had you played 9.h4 instead of 9.Nf3 Now black cannot play Na5 without you exchanging on b7 and the c4 pawn is no longer under attack

    A critical position, imo, is on your (whites) 16th move



    You comment that you need an additional piece to attack so instead you charge with a pawn. 16.c4
    accepting that it may be difficult to maintain the pressure perhaps an idea here was 16.Ng4 to weaken black's pawn structure and create a long term asset, a passer in the h-file
  4. 28 Feb '12 21:02
    A classic game, just wondering if you considered the cheeky 15. Nc6?

    which I think pretty much forces 15...Qf8 and then you have options like Bxf6 and then some sort of kingside attack while black tries to sort out his queenside. Might lead to trouble, but seems to be in the spirit of the game
  5. 28 Feb '12 21:10 / 1 edit
    I actually hated this game. Throughout I felt like I needed to just hush up morgski's initiative and and settle with the draw. I played in bail-out mode for nearly the entire game. When morgski made his critical mistake (I believe Bf4) I thought maybe I could snatch from the cookie jar. I got lucky. I made many suspect moves.

    I've posted many more thoughts than usual because I'm uncomfortable in these positions and have every expectation of players correcting my thoughts (some pruning!). If you disagree with my thinking, please feel free to bash my annotations and let me know what I should have done otherwise. This is WAY outside my realm of expertise.



    Q
  6. Standard member kingshill
    Mr Ring Rusty
    28 Feb '12 21:17
    @move 6

    Grob players tend to leave their Kings in the middle. Smashing up the queen side should make no difference. I used to play the Grob 30 years ago and still play it over the board in quick games. I would not bet my house on it though
  7. 28 Feb '12 21:26 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by kingshill
    @move 6

    Grob players tend to leave their Kings in the middle. Smashing up the queen side should make no difference. I used to play the Grob 30 years ago and still play it over the board in quick games. I would not bet my house on it though
    Well said. Morgski informed me at some point through this game that he looked at his e and f pawns as g and h pawns.. even though he's in the center.
    What kind of madness is that? This is the first time I've ever ran into "the grob" myself. I've seen other players play it in games. I've never had to meet it myself.
    Information well received.. I'll keep it in mind now!

    Q
  8. 28 Feb '12 22:06
    very nice annotations from both of you, was a good read!
  9. Standard member kingshill
    Mr Ring Rusty
    28 Feb '12 22:14
    If you are looking for games played with the Grob search for Mike Basman. He's a player who specialises in strange openings.

    I have a book somewhere on the Grob by Claude Bloodgood. I think that he was sentenced to death in the USA for murder. Not sure if he got life or was executed
  10. 02 Mar '12 11:39 / 1 edit
    Thanks for the comments and suggestions. Watchyourbackrank, Vandervelde and velvetears, I think you have highlighted the two critical mistakes I made (shouldn't have pushed the pawn, missed an interesting attack). I agree that it is usually not sound to play a questionable opening against a better opponent, but in this case I knew I had much more experience in this opening than Q, so the dodgyness of the opening is slightly mitigated. I still lost though
  11. 02 Mar '12 11:45
    I don`t think morgski should blame opening as Black opening play (2...b6 and 3...Nc6) seems to be very strange.
  12. 02 Mar '12 15:12 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by PhySiQ
    I actually hated this game. Throughout I felt like I needed to just hush up morgski's initiative and and settle with the draw. I played in bail-out mode for nearly the entire game. When morgski made his critical mistake (I believe Bf4) I thought maybe I could snatch from the cookie jar. I got lucky. I made many suspect moves.

    I've posted many more tho uare to a c2 check if Ke3.} 36. e5 Ra3+ 37. Ke4 Nd5 38. Rg3 Re3# [/pgn]

    Q
    I have some questions
    1)

    White played 9.Nf3.

    Your comment "Opens up the long diagonal. This loses c4 immediately." Could you explain how 9.Nf3 opened long diagonal for White?

    2)

    You played 15...Qd8 commenting it My queen is doing too much work. I don't like the pin on it and the undefended c7 pawn could become a wild liability. Ideally, I'd like to play Qc7 and control the boards longest dark diagonal.

    What kind of "too much work" your Queen did on e7? How White could attack your undefended c7 pawn?

    3)

    in this position your comment is I have the long diagonal (and pressure on h2)
    How it`s possible if White Knight is on e5 and you lacked real options to drive him away? Especially taking into account that your Queen got away from diagonal after 19.cxb6 Qxb6.

    4)

    Your comment I think things look drawish. . Drawish??? With clear extra pawn for Black?

    5)

    After 23...g6 you wrote ugly - but mandatory either sideline the knight with Nh5 or Rb8 losing my only attack on whole board...the semi open file. What was wrong with 23...Rh7 or even 23... Nax3 24.Rxg7 Rh7 for example?
  13. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    02 Mar '12 16:13
    It's always interesting to look at games where two player's styles clash. Morgski plays aggressive, tactical chess and Q seems to favor quiet, positional play.

    It would seem (I have no experience with the Grob as White and tend to handle it with Black in a similar manner as Q) that White needed to generate pressure faster.

    2. c4 - I don't like this move (with the caveat that I don't know any Grob "theory". Q opts to not occupy the center in classical fashion with e5 or d5 so you know he is going to adopt some sort of hypermodern setup. My goal would be to make Black's natural development difficult. 2. Bg2 helps with that as after e6 you can count on Black wanting to put his Bishop on b7 or a6 ala the QID/Nimzo positions. Therefore a quick 2. Bg2 would make sense- if Black wants to place his light square Bish on b7 he is going to pay for it in time. It seems to me that for the Grob to work White needs quick development as you are playing with a serious kingside weakness from move one.I might consider d4 or b3?! unless Black commits to a big center.

    Not to nitpick a move 2- but it seemed like after that Black was able to comfortably achieve a logical configuration of his minor pieces (except of course the Knight that desperately wanted to get to f6.
  14. 02 Mar '12 19:25 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Pacifique
    I have some questions
    Well Mr. Pacifique, thanks for taking a look at the game. I think with some more time invested you may agree with some of my comments and disagree with others. That's the fun in game annotations - proving the annotator wrong is an amazingly good feeling. Quite a few of my ideas I would say are incorrect, but not necessarily wrong.

    1.)it opens the long diagonal for black. The black bishop can be unpinned. White unpins his bishop by Rg1.

    2.) The queen is defending d7 and f6 while pinned. White gets to play e4 freely and perhaps one sharp form is Qc2 with intentions of a4 and a later c pawn push.

    3.) the threat of force is often better than force itself. My c pawn isn't gone so at some point it may become free. In this game it didn't happen that way. I don't like Qc7 much, maybe Qb8 would have been better.. at the time it was hard to choose one over the other. I was certainly hanging onto a possibility of still castling.

    4.) Whites undisputed dark bishop and ability to take the b file early is enough counter-play for white. The removal of the dark bishop and non-opposition on the b file I think turned a draw into a loss. A pawns advantage is often not enough to win. (Quite often).

    5.) I didn't like them.

    I would agree with your assessment of our styles nimzo. I think there must be a better way to approach the defense of the grob. I don't think my manner of defense was accurate. I would say a classical style with a strong center might be better. Its hard to say without doing study (which I haven't). Its disturbing to think there is such a silly thing as "grob theory". It would seem as though it should be refuted instantly. Although I'm certain its not. I place its ridiculousness alongside the KG, perhaps irrefutable...but annoying in the same way to a player like me.

    Q
  15. 02 Mar '12 19:26 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Pacifique
    I have some questions
    1)
    [fen]r3k1nr/pbppqpp1/1pn1p2p/6P1/2PP4/P1P5/4PPBP/R1BQK1NR w KQkq - 0 9[/fen]
    White played [b]9.Nf3.
    [fen]r3k1nr/pbppqpp1/1pn1p2p/6P1/2PP4/P1P2N2/4PPBP/R1BQK2R b KQkq - 0 9[/fen]
    Your comment "Opens up the long diagonal. This loses c4 immediately." Could you explain how 9.Nf3 opened long diagonal for White?

    2)
    i open file.[/i] What was wrong with 23...Rh7 or even 23... Nax3 24.Rxg7 Rh7 for example?[/b]
    NVM