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Originally posted by KorchI think it was Federov
I know that one GM (don`t remember who) who have been played KG very often, but then stopped to do it, have told that main reason why he did stop to play KG is that black have no problems to switch into drawish lines.
I remember he played it against Ivanchuk and Anand in a touney about 5 yrs ago
Originally posted by shorbockI've actually had two GMs play this against me OTB! It's not as ludicrous as most of Raymondo's ideas (he probably nicked it off someone else). I think white's most enterprising line is to continue in gambit mode with 4.Nc3 exf4 5.Bc4!?
Actually going back to the initial post, maybe my solution is not convenient for ivan, we're still in tricky tactical KG main lines, so here is a new idea :
Want to avoid the accepted gambit, and reduce tactics to a minimum? Something frustrating for a gambit player and out of book without being dubious? Mmmh maybe this miracle anti-KG does exist after all ...[text shortened]... (better than Qh4) Nxd5 Qxe4 etc...
Maybe the KG experts can tell more about this line?
Originally posted by tomtom232Not my greatest game on RHP. In fact, we both played pretty abysmally against each other with black. (Neither game was a KG.)
Well...he did beat Northernlad..and its possible he was a GM in his prime and just isn't in his prime anymore...but I do think that he went a little overboard saying that the KG is unsound even if black doesn't take the pawn... and I will finally get my game against you in the BNL tourny...or maybe even in the sacrifice clan tourney, if you won your match with cedars.
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Originally posted by KorchI actually have quite a lot. 2...Bc5 seems quite popular OTB. I normally play 3.Nf3 d6 4.c3, which is both more ambitious and more risky than 4.Nc3, which I would categorise as =/+= (i.e. normal chess!). Some interesting offbeat ideas which may be worth an outing are 3.Qh5!?, 3.Nf3 d6 4.b4!?, and 3.Nf3 d6 4.d4!? exd4 5.Bd3!
Most KG players have little experience against 2...Bc5 😛
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Originally posted by tomtom232Actually it isn't. Stefan Bücker once wrote an entire book on it. And when I lived in Luxembourg many years ago I played numerous 5 minute games (as white) in this line against Alberto David (now a GM); it wasn't that easy a nut to crack. Apparently the critical line is 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Qf6!?/?! 3.Nc3 Qxf4 4.Nf3 Bb4 5.Bc4! Bxc3 6.0-0! f6! 7.dxc3 Qg4 8.Bf7+! Ke7 9.h3 Qg3 10.Ng5! Clearly not for those of a nervous disposition!
ludicrous.
Originally posted by cmsMasterActually I've never had too many problems against the Kieseritzky. The Muzio and Rosentreter variations both seem to be draws. There is in fact no need to take the Muzio on, though there is a temptation if you know your opponent is going to play the unsound double Muzio.
I don't think I would, I'm not quite sure actually...
Plus, playing the black side of a Muzio or Rosentreter is just scary, and playing the black side of a Kieseritzky doesn't look very comforting..it actually just looks confusing and difficult.
Of course, white could just play the Algaier and confuse the hell out of black immediately.
Originally posted by Northern LadYes, well, I've never had too many problems with the Kieseritzky. 🙂 I'd say good chances for either side.
Actually I've never had too many problems against the Kieseritzky. The Muzio and Rosentreter variations both seem to be draws. There is in fact no need to take the Muzio on, though there is a temptation if you know your opponent is going to play the unsound double Muzio.
I'm not as big a fan of the Muzio and Rosentreter, but I think they're playable.
Originally posted by Northern LadOh god..that line's insane. I'm gonna have to try it sometime. 🙂
Actually it isn't. Stefan Bücker once wrote an entire book on it. And when I lived in Luxembourg many years ago I played numerous 5 minute games (as white) in this line against Alberto David (now a GM); it wasn't that easy a nut to crack. Apparently the critical line is 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Qf6!?/?! 3.Nc3 Qxf4 4.Nf3 Bb4 5.Bc4! Bxc3 6.0-0! f6! 7.dxc3 Qg4 8.Bf7+! Ke7 9.h3 Qg3 10.Ng5! Clearly not for those of a nervous disposition!
Originally posted by Northern LadYeah, 2...Bc5 really isn't all that rare. And again, I don't think it's overly challenging either, I think you get less advantage from the Ruy mainlines than from the white side of 2...Bc5.
I actually have quite a lot. 2...Bc5 seems quite popular OTB. I normally play 3.Nf3 d6 4.c3, which is both more ambitious and more risky than 4.Nc3, which I would categorise as =/+= (i.e. normal chess!). Some interesting offbeat ideas which may be worth an outing are 3.Qh5!?, 3.Nf3 d6 4.b4!?, and 3.Nf3 d6 4.d4!? exd4 5.Bd3!
Originally posted by AdoreaUmm...No..I was talking about 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4!? - just broadening the discussion.
Bc4 i believe is what he was talking about.
i have an interesting game going on (unrated) in the KGA....
[fen]rnbqkbnr/ppp2p1p/3p4/8/3PPppP/5N2/PPP3P1/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 3[/fen] not all that
unfamiliar of a position for KGA - Fischer Defense however it does look very alien to a slav/caro-kann/sicilian player.
Game 4782228
Originally posted by AdoreaI think this is the new Fischer mainline, Ng1 is the most popular move for white there.
Bc4 i believe is what he was talking about.
i have an interesting game going on (unrated) in the KGA....
[fen]rnbqkbnr/ppp2p1p/3p4/8/3PPppP/5N2/PPP3P1/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 3[/fen] not all that
unfamiliar of a position for KGA - Fischer Defense however it does look very alien to a slav/caro-kann/sicilian player.
Game 4782228