It's certainly unsound in postal play but i guess OTB, especially in rapid, it must quite hard to prove that under GM level ! (a bit like my beloved halloween attack).
In my opinion for OTB play it's a better choice than the kieseritzky, which expert players don't fear anymore
Originally posted by Northern LadSo how did you fare against those mighty opponents? (i guess you're not gm yourself?)
I've actually had two GMs play this against me OTB! It's not as ludicrous as most of Raymondo's ideas (he probably nicked it off someone else). I think white's most enterprising line is to continue in gambit mode with 4.Nc3 exf4 5.Bc4!?
Would you recommend it for a club level player like ivan seeking a quiet offbeat answer to the KG ?
2 edits
Originally posted by shorbockActually I am looking something that do not do the impression that bomb had dropped on the kingside if I accept it as black.
So how did you fare against those mighty opponents? (i guess you're not gm yourself?)
Would you recommend it for a club level player like ivan seeking a quiet offbeat answer to the KG ?
(positions that arise after 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nc3 g4 and then, if not careful enough white soon droops some sacrifice to take f7 pawn and beat my arse while my queenside pieces are on vacation)
EDIT : I recently played blitz game (5\0) starting with 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.d4 g4 5.Bxf4 gxf3 6.Qxf3. While my f7 pawn is still intact and my opponent is down a piece, I did lose badly that one... I am developed like banana republic industry here. 😞
Originally posted by EiserfeldWolfAnother excerpt from N. McDonald's The King's Gambit - A modern view of a swashbuckling opening:
Try 2. ... Qf6. :-)
(p.154/155)
"Game 58
Spassky-David
France 1993
1.e4...e5 2.f4...Qf6
Here Black's idea is to accept the gambit without disrupting his pawn structure with 2...exf4. Hence he plans a quick raid with his queen, which will then retreat. The advantage of this line is that Black avoids any weakness; the drawback is the enormous loss of time. As this game proves, White can maintain the advantage even after the exchange of queens. Nevertheless, this is a plucky idea and a good practical decision against someone who knows everything about the main line King's Gambit! "
Originally posted by EiserfeldWolfHere's Thomas Johansson's take on it:
Try 2. ... Qf6. :-)
"2...Qf6
The Norwalder variation named and extensively analyzed by Stefan Buker.
I suppose that most of the analysis in this section is his although I found it in one of Leach's books.
3.Nc3...Qxf4 4.Nf3
One would have to be careful not to over-reach while chasing the queen, but Black must be even more careful not to get trapped!
Those who don't feel like chasing Black's king and queen in exchange for a piece sac, can try 4.d4...Qh4+ 5.g3...Qd8 6.dxe5 += which, by the way, is the critical variation at least according to Bucker.
4...Bb4
4...d6! 5.d4...Qg4 6.dxe5...dxe5 7.Bc4...Be6 =, Bucker.
Here should be room for improvements for White, 5.Bc4...Nf6 6.0-0...Qg4 7.d3...Be7 is about equal too. But 5.Be2!? may offer White some advantage:
5...Qf6 6.d4...exd4 (6...Bg4 7.0-0) 7.Bg5...Qg6 8.Nd5 +=
5.Bc4...Bxc3 6.0-0! ..."
Originally posted by SquelchbelchI have played this once Game 2038010. Unfortunately, it finished by a move timeout.
Here's Thomas Johansson's take on it:
"[b]2...Qf6
The Norwalder variation named and extensively analyzed by Stefan Buker.
I suppose that most of the analysis in this section is his although I found it in one of Leach's books.
3.Nc3...Qxf4 4.Nf3
[i]One would have to be careful not to over-reach while chasing the queen, but Black ...[text shortened]... 0-0![/b] ..."
[fen]rnb1k1nr/pppp1ppp/8/4p3/2B1Pq2/2b2N2/PPPP2PP/R1BQ1RK1 w - - 0 1[/fen][/b]
Originally posted by SquelchbelchI didn't actually know about this game, but I did mention in a previous post that I'd played dozens of blitz games against Alberto David back in the 80s.
Another excerpt from N. McDonald's The King's Gambit - A modern view of a swashbuckling opening:
(p.154/155)
"Game 58
[b]Spassky-David
France 1993
1.e4...e5 2.f4...Qf6
[fen]rnb1kbnr/pppp1ppp/5q2/4p3/4PP2/8/PPPP2PP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1[/fen]
Here Black's idea is to accept the gambit without disrupting his pawn structure w ...[text shortened]... cal decision against someone who knows everything about the main line King's Gambit! "[/b]
Originally posted by shorbock0.5/2 if I remember correctly. Actually the game I lost I got a very promising position out of the opening but overplayed my hand (typically!).
So how did you fare against those mighty opponents? (i guess you're not gm yourself?)
Would you recommend it for a club level player like ivan seeking a quiet offbeat answer to the KG ?
As far as recommending it is concerned, it's clearly just about playable, but it's not necessarily suited to a quiet life for black.
1 edit
Originally posted by ivan2908It seems that black can practically force a draw in the line you mention (Rosentreter) with 6...Nc6 7.Bc4 d5! 8.Bxd5 Nxd4 9.Bxf7+ Kxf7 10.Qh5+ Ke6. White has nothing better than perpetual here.
Actually I am looking something that do not do the impression that bomb had dropped on the kingside if I accept it as black.
(positions that arise after 1. e4 e5 2. f4 exf4 3. Nc3 g4 and then, if not careful enough white soon droops some sacrifice to take f7 pawn and beat my arse while my queenside pieces are on vacation)
EDIT : I recently played bli own a piece, I did lose badly that one... I am developed like banana republic industry here. 😞
The golden rule here (as in many KG lines) is to ignore ECO. Many of the lines given there (as our friends across the pond would put it) seriously suck!
Originally posted by shorbockI take your point. It would probably be difficult to defend if you didn't know the theory, especially in rapidplay. However, I have to say I am personally reluctant to play a line I know is unsound, but at lower levels you may get away with it.
It's certainly unsound in postal play but i guess OTB, especially in rapid, it must quite hard to prove that under GM level ! (a bit like my beloved halloween attack).
In my opinion for OTB play it's a better choice than the kieseritzky, which expert players don't fear anymore
Originally posted by SquelchbelchInteresting defense, never seen it myself but I recently played blitz 3-0 against 2...Qh4+ where I played 3.g3 Qe7 4.Nf3? - still managed to pull out a lucky win, but I suggest that other KG players look up proper lines to use against this defense because it can get quite tricky. I believe the proper move is 4.d3 instead.
Another excerpt from N. McDonald's The King's Gambit - A modern view of a swashbuckling opening:
(p.154/155)
"Game 58
[b]Spassky-David
France 1993
1.e4...e5 2.f4...Qf6
[fen]rnb1kbnr/pppp1ppp/5q2/4p3/4PP2/8/PPPP2PP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1[/fen]
Here Black's idea is to accept the gambit without disrupting his pawn structure w ...[text shortened]... cal decision against someone who knows everything about the main line King's Gambit! "[/b]