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Where did black go wrong?

Where did black go wrong?

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Originally posted by tomtom232
give the line fritz gives after ...Kh8 instead of ...g6


p.s. If it finds an immediate win I will have to rember the queen + knight mate motif next time I play against the french.
or 1-0 instead of either?

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Originally posted by tomtom232
give the line fritz gives after ...Kh8 instead of ...g6


p.s. If it finds an immediate win I will have to rember the queen + knight mate motif next time I play against the french.
If you mean Kg8 ... fritz resigns almost immediately after fxg5 (threatening g6 leading to mate).

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Originally posted by ih8sens
If you mean Kg8 ... fritz resigns almost immediately after fxg5 (threatening g6 leading to mate).
yes I meant g8. f4xg5 Be8.

yes it gives up a bishop but that is a lot less than a queen!

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Originally posted by tomtom232
yes I meant g8. f4xg5 Be8.

yes it gives up a bishop but that is a lot less than a queen!
oh god! make it end!!
you're an idiot, queen-bishop
it doesn't matter...
if there is no compensation, it won't matter... you still lose.

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Originally posted by tomtom232
yes I meant g8. f4xg5 Be8.

yes it gives up a bishop but that is a lot less than a queen!
Qh7+! after Be8 and the game is over anyways.

The best move was 20. ... Ke7. It prevented an immediate mate but really didn't solve anything. White was brilliant 😉.

The simple fact is that no matter what black did to avoid it or open up the position by trading pawns, white always had Bxh7+ that fritz analysis has now revealed to be winning.

I can't see a black save anywhere. g6 was only very temporary. It seems that white had the win for quite a while before it was actually executed.

By move 14 white was essentially won.

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Originally posted by ih8sens
Qh7+! after Be8 and the game is over anyways.

The best move was 20. ... Ke7. It prevented an immediate mate but really didn't solve anything. White was brilliant 😉.
Yeah it was over anyways but with Qh7+ he still only loses the bishop! Or I am missing something( I have only looked at the last few moves twice).

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Originally posted by rubberjaw30
oh god! make it end!!
you're an idiot, queen-bishop
it doesn't matter...
if there is no compensation, it won't matter... you still lose.
there is no compensation but I think fritz would play the move that lost the least material. Which is why I am inquiring becuase from where I started to look at it the game was won anyways.

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Originally posted by tomtom232
there is no compensation but I think fritz would play the move that lost the least material. Which is why I am inquiring becuase from where I started to look at it the game was won anyways.
I'm running a full analysis @ 30 second search time overnight on this game using Fritz 5.32.

Once that is done I'll copy the results to a word processor, type up my personal analysis, put the two together, and give everyone a fully annotated game (perhaps in a seperate thread). Once that's done I will run it through another engine to check my results. You should have everything by this time tommorow. Every single move will recieve commentary... it will be very long, very in depth, but probably very informative. Don't be surprised if I call out the entire classical french line as dangerous if not unsound. Give me 24 hours.

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okay fritz's analysis is over and it really had nothing to say. It only offered one improvement 17. ... Bxg5... A move I deem to be losing anyways (as does fritz).

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Here is a game where black put up a decent defence against that french system. I believe f6 and c5 have to both be played to chip away at the centre and help to maximise blacks chances.

Game 4005768

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Originally posted by ih8sens
i didn't make the numbers up.. and if you don't think i'm above average I beg you to go post that last game we played.. 8 moves.. mhmmm.
you beat him in 8 moves! Hah! I vow never to get beat in 8 moves on Red Hot Pawn... EVER!

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Originally posted by rubberjaw30
he is cramped because of the weak pawn structure that arises when Black
1.) plays the French
and
2.) castles kingside
Some comments from the loser.

1. This game is a classic example of why you cannot blindly follow database percentages. I had entered tons of hardcore and 1/0 grand/split tournaments and was above 200 games which had to be moved in every day. This is not to detract from ih8s excellent play, just to demonstrate that falling back on db percentages without critical thinking is a terrible idea. I started thinking around move 16 and it was waay too late.

RE: the quoted post.
Care for a game? Choose your own time controls, play 1. e4 and I'll play 1... e6. I'll even stick to classical lines if you want instead of my proffered Winawer or McCutcheon variations (at our level, I don't think it matters, this game's loss out of the opening is the exception rather than the rule) .

Castling Kingside is common in many french lines, though I often prefer to keep it in the center instead.


Re: The comment about f5 being bad and making e5 dominant... What?? the black pawn f5, e6, d5 with white pawns on f4, e5, d4 is fairly common and doesn't present black any huge weaknesses as knights have a hard time attacking e6. Generally, it also takes whites bishops out of the attack. Long term, as long as I contest the c-file and keep a light squared bishop, I can draw.

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everything you say sounds good. As I mentioned, if you DID blunder it was early and it was positionally. Once my white squared bishop had developed the game was all but over. As my analysis that I'm currently in the process of developing will say, the french is very risky opening if you aren't prepared to play both positionally and tactically.

My conclusion... don't play the french vs. me 😛.

edit re database percentages - TOTALLY true... most games found in databases are from players playing OTB games. A 2000 level player may be better than me, but probably not when I have so much extra time to think... it is more than possible to beat a database unless you are using it to follow heavily analyzed, well researched, GM lines. Dragon Fire taught me this in the KG game I played vs. him not long ago... he slaughtered me by deviating from the book 2 moves before I resigned...