A Bio Genesis

@sonhouse said
@KellyJay
Godidit is not a science, it is totally faith based and not disprovable or provable so it is in the eyes of the beholder only. Only your god or SOME god coming down to Earth and telling us, look folks, this is how it is:
Only then would there be real credibility in that 'conjecture'

Suggesting time did it with chance and natural process isn't either, if you cannot show it occurred that way. The thing about looking for simplest explanations, there has to be some explanations to choose from. Looking at the chemistry, looking at specific information commands within living systems, the simplest explanations are, what?

We know coded commands get written for a purpose, and even with minds attempting to put together the chemicals for life it is beyond us. If you still cling to it all occurred without a mind directing it; therefore, its all due to luck, providence, good fortune, an accident of nature, quite a large amount of faith you have there.

Since we have a universe with the properties to support life right here, with all the necessary materials in the right place, at the right time, in the right quantities, under the proper conditions with respect to both the macro and micro environments, also for an extended amount of time with nothing caring about the process or protecting them nothing catastrophic ever occurred in millions of years.

How often do you think all of these necessary things all come together, and stay together?

@KellyJay
Of course we don't know ATT, but might in the future.
We can't make fusion work to generate energy ATT either but we feel it will happen in the future. Same thing.

@sonhouse
https://newatlas.com/space/dna-building-blocks-interstellar-clouds/

@sonhouse said
@sonhouse
https://newatlas.com/space/dna-building-blocks-interstellar-clouds/

I'd have to point you back to Dr. Edward Peltzer's talk on Abiogenesis! Acquiring the building blocks is only a tiny piece of the puzzle, and not even the most difficult one. Chemical reactions are simply chemical reactions; they don't go to where they need to go for life and automatically stop when the desired outcome is reached!

All reactions will continue until they run their course. Pulling together particular items to build a life is a requirement granted, the list of requirements is vast. Just the right quantities put together in just the right way in an environment that would support life, and many other specific conditions are needed. The fact that chemical reactions naturally will not do what is required without intervention would be a show stopper, even if you had all the chemicals at the beginning because once reactions started, the end result destroys many of the necessary ingredients.

@KellyJay
Still an open question and time will tell one way or the other.

@sonhouse said
@KellyJay
Still an open question and time will tell one way or the other.

I actually don't see it that way, but you can hope I suppose.

@kellyjay said
I'd have to point you back to Dr. Edward Peltzer's talk on Abiogenesis! Acquiring the building blocks is only a tiny piece of the puzzle, and not even the most difficult one. Chemical reactions are simply chemical reactions; they don't go to where they need to go for life and automatically stop when the desired outcome is reached!

All reactions will continue until they ru ...[text shortened]... beginning because once reactions started, the end result destroys many of the necessary ingredients.

What's the "desired outcome" of a chemical reaction?

@kazetnagorra said
What's the "desired outcome" of a chemical reaction?

You'd have to watch the video at the beginning to grasp the meaning, sorry you have already declined that.

@sonhouse said
@KellyJay
Still an open question and time will tell one way or the other.

I ran across a quote today; it echoes things I've said.

RC Sproul, "If ever there were a time there was nothing, there would be nothing now."

Is this debatable?

@KellyJay
Logically correct except for the part where there was not nothing, If the BB theory is correct, there was energy that popped through to make our universe and that energy came from somewhere or somewhen.
If BB is right, all the energy total in our universe is X and X came through the wormhole or belly of a black hole or whatever, just squeezed down to a Plank size soda straw if that theory is correct.
Our math cannot handle such things because our math makes out that would have been infinite density but it clearly wasn't infinite since we are pretty sure our universe is finite, even if it is 3 or 4 times bigger than we can see with telescopes.

@sonhouse said
@KellyJay
Logically correct except for the part where there was not nothing, If the BB theory is correct, there was energy that popped through to make our universe and that energy came from somewhere or somewhen.
If BB is right, all the energy total in our universe is X and X came through the wormhole or belly of a black hole or whatever, just squeezed down to a Plank size ...[text shortened]... etty sure our universe is finite, even if it is 3 or 4 times bigger than we can see with telescopes.

Nothing is nothing, so describing anything doing anything, isn't nothing.

@KellyJay
The whole point of BB theory,
Now we think there was a before considering the time of our universe.
Theories like a black hole in a parent universe begets ours, squirting out energy that becomes our universe and ours in turn via black holes, squirts energy to make a daughter universe implying the universe in total is infinitely grander than 'just' our universe we see with Hubble, a string of universes going back an infinite amount of time, pretty mind boggling stuff.

@sonhouse said
@KellyJay
The whole point of BB theory,
Now we think there was a before considering the time of our universe.
Theories like a black hole in a parent universe begets ours, squirting out energy that becomes our universe and ours in turn via black holes, squirts energy to make a daughter universe implying the universe in total is infinitely grander than 'just' our universe ...[text shortened]... ith Hubble, a string of universes going back an infinite amount of time, pretty mind boggling stuff.

The point of nothing is there is nothing, and nothing can do nothing.
The only thing you are doing is avoiding that question by saying where there was this something.

@KellyJay
I cannot accept the idea we came from nothing. BTW, up to 110 on SC now, did one slide guitar piece which I rarely do, I used my 1944 Martin 0-18 for that and slipping up the mountain, latest tune.