04 Dec 08
Originally posted by FabianFnasWell done
Nor does creationist fundamentalists have.
By the way, as souls in this thread is off-topic, I have started a new thread at a better place: at Spiritual Forum - Thread 104617
Kelly
04 Dec 08
Originally posted by sonhouseI gave the scripture verse for humans having souls, you have one
Another master arrogance of humanity. Only humans can have souls.
It's funny, humans give themselves a non-existant attribute and then use that to prove their own superiority over every other life form on earth. It's not enough to simply be the smartest, although even that has yet to be totally proven (dolphins, whales, etc.) but some people think in order to be totally superior we must posess something no other lifeform does.
for trees?
Kelly
04 Dec 08
2 edits
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonIt is like this, mutations are random that is all that evolution gets to
I think what PBE6 is trying to say is that you are wrong to make out that evolution is supposed to be just totally random because that is simply not true because that is simply not what the theory says -do you deny this?
Is natural selection random? -answer -no.
Therefore, although evolution has a random element to it, it is simply false to simpl ...[text shortened]... ome predictability -but then how can evolution be totally random if it has some predictability!?
work with, nothing else is there! If mutations do not hand over to
evolution what it needs to produce what is being built, it doesn’t matter
what evolution needs to complete a task if it does not have the
material at the right time, under the right conditions, it will not get to
build whatever is needed. I will let PBE6 speak for himself because
you may not be reading him properly.
Most if not all of the evolutionist arguments about something complex
that they are trying to explain they always set it up as most of the
work was done, and all that was required was this little twist at the right
time to make something happen. Read up on all the various links
about the eye, the nerves were in place, or this was in place, and all
that was required was the connection for this to happen at the right
time. On the whole that is a huge leap of faith to suggest these types
of things occurred through a meaningless, goal-less process, that does
not care one wit if something lives or dies, as a matter of fact it is
much easier to kill off something or injure it than improve it by random
mutations.
Kelly
04 Dec 08
3 edits
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonIs natural selection random? -answer -no.
I think what PBE6 is trying to say is that you are wrong to make out that evolution is supposed to be just totally random because that is simply not true because that is simply not what the theory says -do you deny this?
Is natural selection random? -answer -no.
Therefore, although evolution has a random element to it, it is simply false to simpl ...[text shortened]... ome predictability -but then how can evolution be totally random if it has some predictability!?
Natural selection does not have a plan, it is not following some script
to cause 'good things' to occur over time. All it really is, is the process
of life playing out, saying that those that can survive do, and those
that cannot don't. It isn't a processes plant that handles all the
material random mutations give it and sets to work out all the issues
to produce some product that is better than last years model.
Kelly
04 Dec 08
Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton-if you do deny this then how do you explain the fact that the theory of evolution makes a prediction that only the beneficial mutations will be selected and thus the selection is not random!?
I think what PBE6 is trying to say is that you are wrong to make out that evolution is supposed to be just totally random because that is simply not true because that is simply not what the theory says -do you deny this?
Is natural selection random? -answer -no.
Therefore, although evolution has a random element to it, it is simply false to simpl ...[text shortened]... ome predictability -but then how can evolution be totally random if it has some predictability!?
Evolution does not make predictions, people do.
People look at patterns and they come up with what they think it
all means.
Kelly
04 Dec 08
Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton"-if you not do deny this then you accept the fact that natural selection, that is a non-random process, is a part of evolution thus giving evolution some predictability -but then how can evolution be totally random if it has some predictability!?"
I think what PBE6 is trying to say is that you are wrong to make out that evolution is supposed to be just totally random because that is simply not true because that is simply not what the theory says -do you deny this?
Is natural selection random? -answer -no.
Therefore, although evolution has a random element to it, it is simply false to simpl ...[text shortened]... ome predictability -but then how can evolution be totally random if it has some predictability!?
Natural selection does not build anything, it only describes that some
are going to live on and others not, the twist people throw into the mix
is that 'improvements' are then built up through this and we get new
versions of life over time.
Kelly
04 Dec 08
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJay…Evolution does not make predictions, people do. .....
-if you do deny this then how do you explain the fact that the theory of evolution makes a prediction that only the beneficial mutations will be selected and thus the selection is not random!?
Evolution does not make predictions, people do.
People look at patterns and they come up with what they think it
all means.
Kelly
That is just word play and I think you know it -I didn’t say nor imply that the “evolution process” makes a prediction -I said the “theory of evolution” makes a prediction -specifically, the prediction that natural selection will generally select for the beneficial mutations -surely you don’t deny this simple fact?
04 Dec 08
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayHow does this answer my question?
"-if you not do deny this then you accept the fact that natural selection, that is a non-random process, is a part of evolution thus giving evolution some predictability -but then how can evolution be totally random if it has some predictability!?"
Natural selection does not build anything, it only describes that some
are going to live on and others not rovements' are then built up through this and we get new
versions of life over time.
Kelly
How does this even relate to my question?
Do you deny that evolution has some predictability?
An explicit prediction is often part of a scientific theory.
05 Dec 08
Originally posted by KellyJayThanks for clarifying. So do you believe that the human eye was ever otherwise? Do you have any evidence to back up your claim? I was under the impression that the "creationist model" implies that humans were created as we are now, hence the rib situation and all that rot.
I do not call my self an ID'er, I'm a creationist. ID could have anything
starting up life from E.T. to something else, the point of ID isn't that
God did it; it is that it would require something putting everything
where it needs to be, when it needs to be there, for as long as it
needs to be there and so on. I fall into the Biblical Creationist group, ...[text shortened]... could disagree with those that believe
ID did occur, but not give God credit for it.
Kelly
05 Dec 08
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayYour "design issues" aside, the theory of evolution posits that man evolved from other species which directly contradicts the scripture you just quoted.
I do not complain on the basis of scripture here, design issues are
what causes me to believe evolution cannot happen the way people
project it has.
Kelly
05 Dec 08
Originally posted by KellyJayPlease describe the theory of evolution, in your own words. Once we've corrected you on the details, we can address the issue of plausibility.
For the record I fail to see how you can believe that!
If mutations are random, evolutionary results are bound to what
occurs next in mutations, or fails to occur next.
Kelly
05 Dec 08
Originally posted by KellyJayI'm genuinely surprised! I thought you didn't know what the theory of evolution was, but you've summed up some of the key points right here!
Is natural selection random? -answer -no.
Natural selection does not have a plan, it is not following some script
to cause 'good things' to occur over time. All it really is, is the process
of life playing out, saying that those that can survive do, and those
that cannot don't. It isn't a processes plant that handles all the
material random mutation ...[text shortened]... ork out all the issues
to produce some product that is better than last years model.
Kelly
Natural selection does not have a plan, it is not following some script to cause 'good things' to occur over time. Yes!
All it really is, is the process of life playing out, saying that those that can survive do, and those that cannot don't. Yes! (Don't forget about the part where the survivors have babies quite a bit like them...)
It isn't a processes plant that handles all the material random mutations give it and sets to work out all the issues to produce some product that is better than last years model. Yes! Anthropomorphism of natural selection is the wrong tack to take! Much like a sieve, natural selection doesn't set out to do anything. However, also like a sieve, some items will pass through it and some won't.