1. Subscribersonhouse
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    22 May '08 01:21
    Look at this statistic:
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13930-16-of-us-science-teachers-are-creationists.html
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    22 May '08 03:08
    A sad indication of just how long our science education has been derailed.
  3. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    22 May '08 03:301 edit
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    A sad indication of just how long our science education has been derailed.
    Man, there is like no competition out there for my job. I'm going to be a science teacher in the fall. I'll be able to write my own paycheck.

    The science teacher I'm working under is an Econ major with a Bio minor. She keeps telling the students "now, evolution is just what the scientists think happened, you can believe what you want, even I have my doubts."
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    22 May '08 03:39
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Man, there is like no competition out there for my job. I'm going to be a science teacher in the fall. I'll be able to write my own paycheck.

    The science teacher I'm working under is an Econ major with a Bio minor. She keeps telling the students "now, evolution is just what the scientists think happened, you can believe what you want, even I have my doubts."
    What level is that at?

    You should try saying some think like "now, the earth revolving around the sun is just what the scientists think, you can believe what you want..." just to see if she agrees with it too.
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    22 May '08 06:01
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Look at this statistic:
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13930-16-of-us-science-teachers-are-creationists.html
    Hardly surprising that 40% of Americans do not believe in our evolutionary origins then if the problem is that wide spread in the schools (another NS report from a few weeks back, although Turkey was higher at 50đŸ˜”.

    Very scary stuff indeed when schools can get away with teaching lies, it should not be allowed to happen in ANY subject. The future of our species depends upon our knowledge, ingenuity and progress. None of this can happen with lies and bad teaching.
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    22 May '08 09:251 edit
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Man, there is like no competition out there for my job. I'm going to be a science teacher in the fall. I'll be able to write my own paycheck.
    Do you know why people don't want the job? I thought it was due to low salaries but your paycheck comment makes me think otherwise.
    In Zambia, its a money issue. If you have the skills to be a good science teacher then you can make more doing something else. The same applies to most subjects. I was lucky that I went to a Catholic run school where most of the teachers were not there for the money (those that were there for the money were lousy teachers).
    'Those that can do, those that can't teach.'
  7. Big D
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    22 May '08 13:50
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Look at this statistic:
    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13930-16-of-us-science-teachers-are-creationists.html
    Agreed -- we shouldn't be content until the other 84 percent of U.S. science teachers quit teaching the false dogma of Darwinism.
  8. Subscribersonhouse
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    22 May '08 13:58
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Do you know why people don't want the job? I thought it was due to low salaries but your paycheck comment makes me think otherwise.
    In Zambia, its a money issue. If you have the skills to be a good science teacher then you can make more doing something else. The same applies to most subjects. I was lucky that I went to a Catholic run school where most of ...[text shortened]... were there for the money were lousy teachers).
    'Those that can do, those that can't teach.'
    But if there were no teachers, the ones that 'can, do' will only last one generation and then what?
    Those asholes who try to derail real science in a classroom should be
    arrested and tried for treason or something.
    I had to deal with one such when I was in the 8th grade, a very small parochial school, lutheran, and the teacher was also the principle, George T Schlicting. I won't forget that dude. He would try to put down science every chance he got. Here was one of his barbs:
    Scientists say heat rises. Ok, then how come water freezes on top first? With no further explanation, attempting to leave you with the idea that scientists are fools. I knew something was wrong and actually got the implication, even at the age of 12. They didn't even bring up evolution, it must have been banned from being taught at all. We had to read the catechism every day, learn all the lutheran doctrine and herr shlicting hated me because we were poor. He was a terrible man and an even worse teacher. He finally got kicked out or probably upstairs when he said something like, you little shytes, you better get to work or something like that, we told our parents and there was a big tadoo about it and we got a very nice young man to take his place. Shlicting also beat me in class with a three foot pointer. Nice guy. We SO hated to see him go.....
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    22 May '08 14:52
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    But if there were no teachers, the ones that 'can, do' will only last one generation and then what?
    Those asholes who try to derail real science in a classroom should be
    arrested and tried for treason or something.
    I had to deal with one such when I was in the 8th grade, a very small parochial school, lutheran, and the teacher was also the principle, Geo ...[text shortened]... ng also beat me in class with a three foot pointer. Nice guy. We SO hated to see him go.....
    There have been a number of challenges taken up by teachers claiming they have a free speech right to teach creationism in their classroom. Fortunately the courts have acknowledged that they aren't in class to express their views, but to teach a well founded curriculum.

    We need to make sure that science is being taught in the classroom properly and then science teachers will get in who actually know science. It's almost a chicken & egg problem even. We can't get good science teachers without teaching good science.

    One thing that will help is for parents to be involved in these things and elect school boards who are science-conscious.
  10. Standard membertelerion
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    22 May '08 15:41
    Originally posted by twhitehead

    'Those that can do, those that can't teach.'
    Maybe in your field. In mine however 'those that can do' work at research universities and are forced to teach, while 'those that can't' work for the private sector or the gov't and do trivial analysis that people around them think is hard. Of course this isn't true for everybody. Some capable people just don't want to do research*. Overall though, the bar is set much higher for those wanting to work in research (and thus teaching).

    I think the saying, "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach," was invented by a lazy student of unexceptional intelligence looking for some one other than himself to blame for his failures.

    An interesting side note, quite a few brilliant research economists can't teach worth a darn.

    * - There are also a few quality research institutions where there is no teaching requirement, though they are usually forced to do some other mundane business for part of their time.
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    22 May '08 18:49
    Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
    Agreed -- we shouldn't be content until the other 84 percent of U.S. science teachers quit teaching the false dogma of Darwinism.
    That's not like you DSR, you normally provide us with a link to credible research for your opposing point of view.

    Not that I'm sure what your point of view is yet.
    Do you disagree with the theory of evolution, or just taking it dogmatically?
  12. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    22 May '08 20:00
    Originally posted by aging blitzer
    Do you disagree with the theory of evolution, or just taking it dogmatically?
    He's not talking about the theory of evolution but Darwinism. Sure sounds sinister to me. I hear those Darwinists drape themselves in animal hides and brandish the jawbones of apes.
  13. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    22 May '08 20:02
    Originally posted by twhitehead

    'Those that can do, those that can't teach.'
    Good teachers are few and far between. It's a gift. Some countries have their priorities right and pay their teachers what they are worth. Others pay peanuts and complain when they get monkeys.
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    22 May '08 20:23
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    He's not talking about the theory of evolution but Darwinism.
    What type though?
    This one?

    "Creationists use the term Darwinism, often pejoratively, to imply that the theory has been held as true only by Darwin and a core group of his followers, whom they cast as dogmatic and inflexible in their belief."
  15. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    22 May '08 20:35
    Originally posted by aging blitzer
    "Creationists use the term Darwinism, often pejoratively, to imply that the theory has been held as true only by Darwin and a core group of his followers, whom they cast as dogmatic and inflexible in their belief."
    That's right. Those creeping Darwinists. They'll sandbag you in an alley and turn you into Piltdown Man, just to prop up their bankrupt, dogmatic, inflexible beliefs.
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