Originally posted by @handyandyWhat facts do we have? Facts are facts, but theories are not fact.
To paraphrase the late Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, you are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.
Originally posted by @wildgrassHe made wine. The other word in there is phone speak for literal I think.
???
Jesus made literal wine, not a substance like wine.
Originally posted by @eladarThe sad part is people by the hundreds of millions buying into all that as if it were real. You do realize those tales were written about JC decades after he died, right? No way to prove the tale wrong since most of the people present ATT were also safely dead so they could make up anything and be believed.
He made wine. The other word in there is phone speak for literal I think.
Jesus made literal wine, not a substance like wine.
Originally posted by @sonhouseThanks for your opinion.
The sad part is people by the hundreds of millions buying into all that as if it were real. You do realize those tales were written about JC decades after he died, right? No way to prove the tale wrong since most of the people present ATT were also safely dead so they could make up anything and be believed.
Now do you wish to deal with the question being asked in this thread?
This is a little tedious. He wants us to admit that prior states are inferred from current ones based on a theory about the world so he can say "Aha, but this must apply to the entire World as well. Science can't prove the World wasn't created eight thousand years ago.". We then all say: "Drat, better start going to Church.". The problem is that his theory, that the Bible is literally true, suffers from the same ultimate proof problems as well as contradictory evidence it can't cope with. Science can cope with contradictory evidence one just modifies the theory.
Originally posted by @handyandyNot at all, not for this thread. No one has facts when it comes to unobserved events.
If you assume something to be true, you are assuming it's a fact. All you need now is evidence.
Originally posted by @eladarWell you mentioned pure wine. What is your definition of that? Would the people drinking it not get stoned? What do you mean by that?
Thanks for your opinion.
Now do you wish to deal with the question being asked in this thread?
I would assume if there was some kind of supernatural interference and wine was produced from water, and we could get a sample here in century 21, we would find the same kind of things we would find from any vineyard of the period.
So there would be no way for science to take a sample of wine and say yes, this proves a miracle or nay.
If there was something in it not from Earth that would be one thing, like the iridium found in that small slice of dirt all around the planet that was the result of the Chicxulub asteroid from 65 million years ago, that stuff is almost zero on Earth so if that wine had that in it in detectable quantities, then they could say there is somthing in there not from planet Earth.
That still wouldn't be absolute evidence for a supernatural god.
Originally posted by @sonhouseBy stoned you mean drunk?
Well you mentioned pure wine. What is your definition of that? Would the people drinking it not get stoned? What do you mean by that?
I would assume if there was some kind of supernatural interference and wine was produced from water, and we could get a sample here in century 21, we would find the same kind of things we would find from any vineyard of ...[text shortened]... here not from planet Earth.
That still wouldn't be absolute evidence for a supernatural god.
Start a thread in the spirituality thread.
I'd like this thread to stay on topic, at least my replies.
So Jesus' wine is real wine. Could science determine it was not made with grapes, but water?
Originally posted by @handyandyLose the point in the topic, attack the person.
Your reasoning is less than feeble.
Say it isn't so.
Originally posted by @eladarI think you know full well water is H2O, two hydrogens and one Oxygen molecule where the H molecules stand at a 105 degree angle apart like mikey mouse ears on the Oxygen molecule.
By stoned you mean drunk?
Start a thread in the spirituality thread.
I'd like this thread to stay on topic, at least my replies.
So Jesus' wine is real wine. Could science determine it was not made with grapes, but water?
I don't see any basis for an organic in there, no carbon. So if a supernatural being made water from wine it would have had to either telekinetically introduce the proper organics or atomically convert either the H or the O into carbon and such.
So take your pick on the supernatural event that made that wine.
And of course we ALL know it is a fantasy tale, right? Do you think it true?
Originally posted by @sonhouseI know it is true, just as you know it is false.
I think you know full well water is H2O, two hydrogens and one Oxygen molecule where the H molecules stand at a 105 degree angle apart like mikey mouse ears on the Oxygen molecule.
I don't see any basis for an organic in there, no carbon. So if a supernatural being made water from wine it would have had to either telekinetically introduce the proper org ...[text shortened]... made that wine.
And of course we ALL know it is a fantasy tale, right? Do you think it true?