Limits of Science

Originally posted by @shallow-blue
Time for you to re-read Matthew 7:3.

Says the child of Satan who is blind to truth.

A hypocrite who can't handle intellectual honesty.

The only person in this forum who shows signs of intellectual honesty is wildgrass. The rest are pathetic pupoets unable to think but simply repear.

Originally posted by @eladar
Does modern science allow us to know the truth, or simply what we understand?

For instance, assuming Jesus created wine out of water, could modern science deduce the method by which the wine was created?

If one could go back in time, take a sample of that wine moments after Jesus turned water into wine, could science determine the process by which i ...[text shortened]... making such a perfect wine? Did Jesus intentionally mislead people by making wine out of water?

If I gave you a glass of wine and I told you I "made" it out of water (whatever "made" means, here) would you believe me?

Originally posted by @great-king-rat
If I gave you a glass of wine and I told you I "made" it out of water (whatever "made" means, here) would you believe me?

Is this real life? Or is this a theoretical discussion?

Originally posted by @eladar
Is this real life? Or is this a theoretical discussion?

No need to dodge here, eladar.

I come to your house, give you a glass of wine, tell you it's made from water, do you believe me? Yes or no? Why? Simple questions.

Originally posted by @eladar
Is this real life?

Also, for completeness' sake:

Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide
No escape from reality
Open your eyes, look up to the skies
And answer the question

Originally posted by @great-king-rat
Also, for completeness' sake:

Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide
No escape from reality
Open your eyes, look up to the skies
And answer the question

For completeness,

Is this a theoretical discussion or is this a real life discussion.

If you said you just made wine from water, I'd ask to see you do it.

If were able to do it, I'd take you to a lake and ask you to walk on water.

The problem here is that only wildgrass is willing to admit that the existence of God is actually a possibility. The rest of you are so caught up in your personal beliefs that you can't fathom any other possibility.

Your religious beliefs only allow you to believe natural explanations and is so strong that you can't imagine that your beliefs could possibly be wrong. As call you guys true believers. There are true believers of every worldview.

Originally posted by @eladar
For completeness,

Is this a theoretical discussion or is this a real life discussion.

If you said you just made wine from water, I'd ask to see you do it.

If were able to do it, I'd take you to a lake and ask you to walk on water.

The problem here is that only wildgrass is willing to admit that the existence of God is actually a possibility. The ...[text shortened]... ssibly be wrong. As call you guys true believers. There are true believers of every worldview.

I refuse to show you how I did it, and what's with this walking on water thing??

Do you believe I made wine out of water? Why (not)?

Originally posted by @great-king-rat
I refuse to show you how I did it, and what's with this walking on water thing??

Do you believe I made wine out of water? Why (not)?

OK, let's go with your example.

Suppose you did make water into wine, would anyone be able to tell that your wine was made from water?

Originally posted by @eladar
OK, let's go with your example.

Suppose you did make water into wine, would anyone be able to tell that your wine was made from water?

You would have to master the trick of converting H20 into carbon and more. If an H20 molecule was turned into carbon, we might make something out of what isotope is it, C14, C12? Other than that, there would be no way for modern science, which is, after all, still in kindergarten in terms of what we have left to learn, we could not tell the dif.

Originally posted by @eladar
Of course there is no evidence, which is why either you believe ot is true or you believe it is false.

Either way you believe.

But for the purposes of this thread it is assumed Jesus actually turns water into wine.

I know the Bible isn't given as much respect today as when you were a kid, but let's go back to when it wasn't as unusual for people to actually believed the Bible.

You don't have to choose between "true" and "false." There's a third option: "don't know." It's a valid option especially when you don't know.

Originally posted by @eladar
OK, let's go with your example.

Suppose you did make water into wine, would anyone be able to tell that your wine was made from water?

Would you answer my question, please, eladar?

Originally posted by @great-king-rat
Would you answer my question, please, eladar?

Your question is irrelevant. Either you did or you didn't. It does not matter if I believe it or not.

Originally posted by @kazetnagorra
You don't have to choose between "true" and "false." There's a third option: "don't know." It's a valid option especially when you don't know.

Don't know is not ever taken in schools. Kids are taught to believe what is true.

Originally posted by @eladar
Your question is irrelevant. Either you did or you didn't. It does not matter if I believe it or not.

I don't care if it matters or not.

I'm simply asking if you would believe me. And your reasoning. It's a very simple question and the answer shouldn't be too difficult to formulate.

Would you believe me?

Originally posted by @great-king-rat
I don't care if it matters or not.

I'm simply asking if you would believe me. And your reasoning. It's a very simple question and the answer shouldn't be too difficult to formulate.

Would you believe me?

That's your problem. You think that what I believe matters. It doesn't.

Just as it does not matter what you believe about Jesus turning water into wine. Either it did happen or it did not. What you believe about it doesn't matter.