On existence of Mind and Soul

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Mind does exist outside the body, by its all pervasive nature, and travels through the ether....and this is why psychics can pick up others thoughts, because thought forms travel and exist in the ether.

Ether is also all pervasive.

Mind is a subtle material energy, and so is intelligence.

If you destroy the brain the mind is still there, but beca ...[text shortened]... ting tactic.

To explain life, they invent words like natural selection which is meaningless.

Yes, I am well aware of the mountain of crap that fills your head.

As I have already said, the fact remains, 'scientists' have not “come around to saying that Mind exists outside the body.”.
That's because such crap would cannot be part of any real science.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
The brain is an "antenna" for the mind.
The mind itself exists everywhere at all times.

The "mind" is just advanced processing power that is distributed across a network of brain cells, resulting from billions of years of evolution. It isn't a single entity, although it will have the illusion of being one.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
Yes, I am well aware of the mountain of crap that fills your head.

As I have already said, the fact remains, 'scientists' have not “come around to saying that Mind exists outside the body.”.
That's because such crap would cannot be part of any real science.

Science doesn't say a lot of things because science is blind.

And the science that says there is no soul, is pseudo atheistic science, worshiped by rascals.

The Lord says, that he is not revealed to the envious and bewildered, who are lost within themselves to Lording it over the material world.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Science doesn't say a lot of things because science is blind.

And the science that says there is no soul, is pseudo atheistic science, worshiped by rascals.

The Lord says, that he is not revealed to the envious and bewildered, who are lost within themselves to Lording it over the material world.

This isn't the Spirituality forum.

Originally posted by lausey
Put it another way. Imagine a robot with advanced AI which you can communicate with and it can do things for itself. Can you identify where its "mind" is?

In mechanical/electrical/electronic systems,you can always identify parts and their functions. So also in biological systems.Software of any kind requires a storage medium.In robots it will an assembly of chips where the OS will reside. In a brain there is no identifiable Seat of an Operating System. It has been said in reply on this forum that any hemisphere of the brain can learn the tasks of other hemisphere,if the latter is damaged.True. But the question still remains as to how the cells of the undamaged hemisphere are " taught" the new tasks,when there is no discernible/identifiable seat of the O.S.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
The brain is an "antenna" for the mind.
The mind itself exists everywhere at all times.

Yes, you are pretty close to what must be the reality.But mind can not be only an antenna.It has to be the master organiser and controller of the brain cells but is not located within the physical/biological body. So where is it?

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Yes, you are pretty close to what must be the reality.But mind can not be only an antenna.It has to be the master organiser and controller of the brain cells but is not located within the physical/biological body. So where is it?

The "mind" is a metaphorical construct, it is an emergent property of the collective interactions of brain cells, not something that is physically present in space.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
The "mind" is a metaphorical construct, it is an emergent property of the collective interactions of brain cells, not something that is physically present in space.

If mind is a metaphorical construct then my views and your views cannot be proved by scientific method. Hence the wording " Mind is an emergent property of the collective interactions of brain cells,not something that is physically present in space" seems to i) accept that Mind exists ii) Someone or something is required to organise the Collective interactions of Brain cells,which you know are separated in space by gaps called Synapses. Yet this Collective Organiser is not present in space but is a metaphorical construct. What goes,sir?

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
If mind is a metaphorical construct then my views and your views cannot be proved by scientific method. Hence the wording " Mind is an emergent property of the collective interactions of brain cells,not something that is physically present in space" seems to i) accept that Mind exists ii) Someone or something is required to organise the Collective interac ...[text shortened]... s Collective Organiser is not present in space but is a metaphorical construct. What goes,sir?

The mind as a metaphor for consciousness, emotions, etc. emergent from the nervous system as a whole, does exist. The mind as a seperate entity from the physical body, is part of metaphysics and therefore irrelevant.

I think you misunderstand what I mean with "emergent property". If you regard a lake, none of the constituent atoms, molecules etc. have the property "lake", but the collection of atoms, molecules, etc. together form the concept of "lake". Where in the lake is the lake located? Answer: nowhere.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
The mind as a metaphor for consciousness, emotions, etc. emergent from the nervous system as a whole, does exist. The mind as a seperate entity from the physical body, is part of metaphysics and therefore irrelevant.

I think you misunderstand what I mean with "emergent property". If you regard a lake, none of the constituent atoms, molecules etc. hav ...[text shortened]... gether form the concept of "lake". Where in the lake is the lake located? Answer: nowhere.

Yet this Metaphysical Construct organises and controls entities in the physical World such as brain cells ! I could not have defended the existence of an entity called Mind better ! Thanks for an engaging debate but it appears that our views do not have any common meeting point. I was much interested if someone could have pointed the instance of the Canadian Surgeon /Scientist Wilder Penfield who first demonstrated the centres within the brain where memories are located and who thereafter conceded that mind exists outside the body. By the way I am in possession of a book by Dawkins called the God Delusion but of that in the forum on Natural Selection.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
“.....So,Scientists have come around to saying that Mind exists outside the body. ...”

what are you talking about?
'scientists' have not “come around to saying that Mind exists outside the body.”.
Which scientists have said this?
What are their credentials?
Do most scientists that have done actual research into the brain actually agree with such an absurd baseless hypothesis?

Dr.Wilder Penfield who first proved that discrete areas exist in the brain storing all types of memories,first stated that " Mind "exists outside the Body.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Dr.Wilder Penfield who first proved that discrete areas exist in the brain storing all types of memories,first stated that " Mind "exists outside the Body.

So apparently Dr. Wilder Penfield was a dualist.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Yet this Metaphysical Construct organises and controls entities in the physical World such as brain cells ! I could not have defended the existence of an entity called Mind better ! Thanks for an engaging debate but it appears that our views do not have any common meeting point. I was much interested if someone could have pointed the instance of the Canad ...[text shortened]... sion of a book by Dawkins called the God Delusion but of that in the forum on Natural Selection.

No, by definition metaphysical objects cannot influence physical objects.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
The "mind" is a metaphorical construct, it is an emergent property of the collective interactions of brain cells, not something that is physically present in space.

you certainly puzzle me by that comment.
I certainly agree that:
“...it is an emergent property of the collective interactions of brain cells, ...”
and I find that a very interesting way of stating it.

But I am not really sure what you mean by: “...The "mind" is a metaphorical construct, ...”.

and as for: “... not something that is physically present in space. ...”, I am not sure what you mean by that. I have probability misunderstood what you are saying but,
if something is an “emergent property of the collective interactions of ….” ...something that physically exists in space (such as brain cells), then, surely, by definition of “exists”, that property “exists” in the same space as those “ collective interactions of” ...whatever those things are that physically exists in space?
I mean, for example, doesn't the property of air-pressure “exists” in space and the same space as the interacting gas molecules that collectively create that pressure?

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
If mind is a metaphorical construct then my views and your views cannot be proved by scientific method. Hence the wording " Mind is an emergent property of the collective interactions of brain cells,not something that is physically present in space" seems to i) accept that Mind exists ii) Someone or something is required to organise the Collective interac ...[text shortened]... s Collective Organiser is not present in space but is a metaphorical construct. What goes,sir?

“...If mind is a metaphorical construct then my views and your views cannot be proved by scientific method. ...”

I really am not sure what is meant by “ mind is a metaphorical construct” but, regardless of what it means, anything that has observable properties, even if you cannot measure them with a tape-measure, can be studied using scientific method. All that is required to use scientific method is a combination or reasoning and, unless you are just talking about pure mathematics etc, empirical observation. If I feel fear, then I consider it an empirical observation that my mind (however you like to define “mind” ) has the property of fear. Many similar observations would allow me to make some sort of scientific analyse of mind.