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Science Forum

  1. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Do ya think?
    23 Apr '08 14:48
    OK, let's analyze this Global Warming stuff. How do we know it's happening? Why do we think it's happening, and why do we think so? Why do we care?
  2. Subscriber padger On Vacation
    23 Apr '08 18:35
    It is happening.Why ?. Lots of different reasons .I am just glad that by that time ( about twenty years ) I won't be around to see the consequences.
  3. 24 Apr '08 06:34
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    [b]OK, let's analyze this Global Warming stuff. How do we know it's happening?
    Glacial retreat - many areas both northern and southern hemisphere
    Melting of artic sea ice
    Melting of antarctic ice cap etc
    The shifting of many species geographic range towards polar latitudes and higher altitudes.
    Evidence based on palaeoclimates.
    Dendrochronology.
    Climate records.

    All of the above show that we are going through a period of global warming, I'm sure there are more.
  4. 24 Apr '08 07:27 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    How do we know it's happening?
    1. Direct measurement. And yes, in cold areas when the ice melts it becomes pretty obvious.
    2. We expect it to happen based on our understanding of the earths climate and the greenhouse effect.

    Why do we care?
    Because it will have far reaching consequences including:
    1. Rising sea levels - drowning most coastal areas including many major cities worldwide.
    2. Loss of arctic ice. - not necessarily a bad thing for shipping but not so good for polar bears.
    3. Changes in weather patterns. Some places will benefit, some will suffer. Hurricanes may become more frequent and stronger. The biggest problem is the unpredictability of the change - making it hard to plan ahead, and the fact that most societies are not geared towards change. We have got our farms, irrigation systems, crops etc etc all worked out and in the places they need to be for the current weather. If the weather changes we may have to move or change our practices. For example many places were flooded in the past few years that had not flooded for quite some time. If that flooding becomes a habit, people must move to higher ground.

    The real question is not "Is it happening" but "What should we do about it". We should prepare. We could either try to stop it, or try to prepare for the consequences. Stopping it would be cheaper - but goes against human nature.
  5. 24 Apr '08 09:02
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    2. Loss of arctic ice. - not necessarily a bad thing for shipping but not so good for polar bears.
    Oh, they will survive. It's not the first time we have a warm climate. Thousand yars ago, the Norweigan Vikings settle down at Greenland and started farms. In those days Greenland was actually green. In this warm climate, there was no polar bear on the ices at the northest part of the world, the North Pole, was there even ice there then?

    Where were the polar bears then? Northern Canada.
  6. 24 Apr '08 11:05 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Oh, they will survive. It's not the first time we have a warm climate. Thousand yars ago, the Norweigan Vikings settle down at Greenland and started farms. In those days Greenland was actually green. In this warm climate, there was no polar bear on the ices at the northest part of the world, the North Pole, was there even ice there then?

    Where were the polar bears then? Northern Canada.
    Do you have any references that say that the polar icecap actually melted completely at that time?
    There was always a snow cap on Greenland.

    It is quite possible that polar bears will adjust but they are under a lot of pressure already and changes will certainly affect them.
  7. 24 Apr '08 11:16
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Do you have any references that say that the polar icecap actually melted completely at that time?
    There was always a snow cap on Greenland.

    It is quite possible that polar bears will adjust but they are under a lot of pressure already and changes will certainly affect them.
    No, no other sources than those indicated that the climate in those days was quite warmer than it is today. If the polar bears survived then, they will survive now.
    But they will be under a lot of pressure, your'e right in that, but the fittest will survive.
  8. 24 Apr '08 12:34
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    No, no other sources than those indicated that the climate in those days was quite warmer than it is today. If the polar bears survived then, they will survive now.
    It was warmer, but possibly only locally (Greenland and Europe) but I do not know if it was warmer than current conditions or as warm as conditions are projected to be soon. In fact I did point out that the icecap on Greenland did not melt during that period, whereas it may yet do so with current trends.

    But they will be under a lot of pressure, your'e right in that, but the fittest will survive.
    We do not know that for sure, we can only hope. Species do go extinct you know and climate change is one of the common causes.
  9. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Do ya think?
    24 Apr '08 13:53
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Oh, they will survive. It's not the first time we have a warm climate. Thousand yars ago, the Norweigan Vikings settle down at Greenland and started farms. In those days Greenland was actually green. In this warm climate, there was no polar bear on the ices at the northest part of the world, the North Pole, was there even ice there then?

    Where were the polar bears then? Northern Canada.
    Dire Wolves didn't survive.
  10. 24 Apr '08 17:56 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    It was warmer, but possibly only locally (Greenland and Europe) but I do not know if it was warmer than current conditions or as warm as conditions are projected to be soon. In fact I did point out that the icecap on Greenland did not melt during that period, whereas it may yet do so with current trends.

    But they will be under a lot of pressure, yo e can only hope. Species do go extinct you know and climate change is one of the common causes.
    True, the Greenland icecap is still intakt, or part of it anyway, for thousands of years.

    But I really would like to know if this is the first time after the ice age that the polar ice is melted. Please help me find some links or documentation that support either opinion.

    If I'm dead wrong in this topic, I'd like to know.
  11. Standard member caissad4
    Child of the Novelty
    24 Apr '08 18:13
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    Oh, they will survive. It's not the first time we have a warm climate. Thousand yars ago, the Norweigan Vikings settle down at Greenland and started farms. In those days Greenland was actually green. In this warm climate, there was no polar bear on the ices at the northest part of the world, the North Pole, was there even ice there then?

    Where were the polar bears then? Northern Canada.
    Greenland has had glaciers for thousands of years.
    Only the coast of Greenland was used for farming.
    Polar bears were an evolution of the Brown bear when the climate cooled.
    Scientific investigation has proven that climate change is a fact.
    Saying that you don't know if it is a fact is only an indication of laziness , ignorance or a lack of desire to search for the answers.
    The same approach is also applicable for the Earth being flat and the sun orbiting the Earth.
  12. 24 Apr '08 18:37
    Originally posted by caissad4
    Greenland has had glaciers for thousands of years.
    Only the coast of Greenland was used for farming.
    Polar bears were an evolution of the Brown bear when the climate cooled.
    Scientific investigation has proven that climate change is a fact.
    Saying that you don't know if it is a fact is only an indication of laziness , ignorance or a lack of desire to se ...[text shortened]...
    The same approach is also applicable for the Earth being flat and the sun orbiting the Earth.
    Are you joking? I have never said that the Earth is being flat and the sun is orbiting the Earth?

    If you read my postings again, the only thing I've said is that the polar bears will survive. Or are you to lazy?
  13. 24 Apr '08 23:23
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    No, no other sources than those indicated that the climate in those days was quite warmer than it is today. If the polar bears survived then, they will survive now.
    But they will be under a lot of pressure, your'e right in that, but the fittest will survive.
    That's not true. They will die, because they AREN'T fit for the environment we are tending towards. A few more degrees, huge reserves of frozen, pressurized methane gas come up from the bottom of the ocean and from the melting permafrost of Canada and Alaska. This is a much more potent greenhouse gas. It will change the environment drastically in a very short period of time. We'll be back like we were 100 million years ago, and it is possible that this might seriously mess up our whole world domination thing.
  14. 24 Apr '08 23:27
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    I have never said that the Earth is being flat and the sun is orbiting the Earth?
    Strange question, at least in response to that. Don't you understand comparisons?
  15. 25 Apr '08 04:43 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by UzumakiAi
    Strange question, at least in response to that. Don't you understand comparisons?
    Actually I don't. What have the existance of polar bears to do with earth being flat? He implies something that I reject. I think he don't understood my previous postings.

    Then he gives me a personal attack of being lazy and ignorant, which means that he is already lost the discussion. Giving personal attacks is a sign that he doesn't care to stay on topic at all. But perhaps only he have a bad day. Why not just let him explain for himself.