Originally posted by twhitehead
Actually every single country with a coast line would be affected including almost half the worlds major cities. (Don't forget that New Orleans is already below sea level - but because it is sinking not because the sea is rising).
I don't think it would be a sudden wash away.

yes there will be some sea level rise ....

also there will be problems with farmers: they will plant a crop expecting a type of season - and then not get that season, and that one crop fails ... they have done this for many thousands of years - but it is likely to be more widespread and extreme ...

and worse: the orchards and vineyards will be in the wrong locations; this is a longer term problem ... do you plant an apple tree or a mango?- which climate model do you trust? (i think no-one knows for sure yet)

The fast and changing mobile beasts will prosper in the voids left by the slow and dead: surely new weeds and pests will make surges ... will some of these be diseases of humans (malaria etc)?

Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
31,072 American scientists have signed this petition, including 9,021 with PhDs:

http://www.petitionproject.org/

I'll try not to hold the PhD's against those signers, but it will be difficult. 😀

Originally posted by der schwarze Ritter
31,072 American scientists have signed this petition, including 9,021 with PhDs:

http://www.petitionproject.org/

This is just a re-hashing of the Oregon Petition...in other words, total bollox. But, congratulations on continuing your unbroken streak of posting utter crap.

From wiki --

Because of various criticisms made of the two Leipzig Declarations, the Oregon Petition Project claimed to adopt a number of measures, though none of these claims have been independently verified:

The petitioners could submit responses only by physical mail, not electronic mail, to limit fraud. Older signatures submitted via the web were not removed. The verification of the scientists was listed at 95%,[2] but the means by which this verification was done is not specified.
Signatories to the petition were requested to list an academic degree; 86% did list a degree. The petition sponsors stated that approximately two thirds held higher degrees, but provided no details confirming this claim.
Petitioners were also requested to list their academic discipline. The petition sponsors state that 2,660 scientists were trained in physical or environmental sciences (physics, geophysics, climatology, meteorology, oceanography, or environmental science) while 25% were trained in chemistry, biochemistry, biology, or other life sciences.[2]
The Petition Project itself avoided any funding or association with the energy industries.
The term "scientists" is often used in describing signatories. The petition requests signatories list their degree (B.S., M.S., or Ph.D.) and to list their scientific field.[3] The distribution of petitions was relatively uncontrolled: those receiving the petition could check a line that said "send more petition cards for me to distribute".

The Petition Project itself used to state:

“ Of the 19,700 signatures that the project has received in total so far, 17,800 have been independently verified and the other 1,900 have not yet been independently verified. Of those signers holding the degree of PhD, 95% have now been independently verified. One name that was sent in by enviro pranksters, Geri Halliwell, PhD, has been eliminated. Several names, such as Perry Mason and Robert Byrd are still on the list even though enviro press reports have ridiculed their identity with the names of famous personalities. They are actual signers. Perry Mason, for example, is a PhD Chemist.[2] ”

In May 1998 the Seattle Times wrote:

“ Several environmental groups questioned dozens of the names: "Perry S. Mason" (the fictitious lawyer?), "Michael J. Fox" (the actor?), "Robert C. Byrd" (the senator?), "John C. Grisham" (the lawyer-author?). And then there's the Spice Girl, a k a. Geraldine Halliwell: The petition listed "Dr. Geri Halliwell" and "Dr. Halliwell."
Asked about the pop singer, Robinson said he was duped. The returned petition, one of thousands of mailings he sent out, identified her as having a degree in microbiology and living in Boston. "It's fake," he said.[15]
”

In 2005, Scientific American reported:

“ Scientific American took a sample of 30 of the 1,400 signatories claiming to hold a Ph.D. in a climate-related science. Of the 26 we were able to identify in various databases, 11 said they still agreed with the petition —- one was an active climate researcher, two others had relevant expertise, and eight signed based on an informal evaluation. Six said they would not sign the petition today, three did not remember any such petition, one had died, and five did not answer repeated messages. Crudely extrapolating, the petition supporters include a core of about 200 climate researchers – a respectable number, though rather a small fraction of the climatological community.[16] ”

In a 2005 op-ed in the Hawaii Reporter, Todd Shelly wrote:

“ In less than 10 minutes of casual scanning, I found duplicate names (Did two Joe R. Eaglemans and two David Tompkins sign the petition, or were some individuals counted twice?), single names without even an initial (Biolchini), corporate names (Graybeal & Sayre, Inc. How does a business sign a petition?), and an apparently phony single name (Redwine, Ph.D.). These examples underscore a major weakness of the list: there is no way to check the authenticity of the names. Names are given, but no identifying information (e.g., institutional affiliation) is provided. Why the lack of transparency?[17]

Originally posted by UzumakiAi
That's not true. They will die, because they AREN'T fit for the environment we are tending towards. A few more degrees, huge reserves of frozen, pressurized methane gas come up from the bottom of the ocean and from the melting permafrost of Canada and Alaska. This is a much more potent greenhouse gas. It will change the environment drastically in a very sh ...[text shortened]... s ago, and it is possible that this might seriously mess up our whole world domination thing.

A few more degrees, huge reserves of frozen, pressurized methane gas come up from the bottom of the ocean and from the melting permafrost of Canada and Alaska.

Then why are we worried about fuel sources? Let's tap into these huge reserves!

Originally posted by flexmore
yes there will be some sea level rise ....

also there will be problems with farmers: they will plant a crop expecting a type of season - and then not get that season, and that one crop fails ... they have done this for many thousands of years - but it is likely to be more widespread and extreme ...

and worse: the orchards and vineyards will be in th ...[text shortened]... ew weeds and pests will make surges ... will some of these be diseases of humans (malaria etc)?

Scary thing, change.

If us human beings were allowed to expand their (our) precious economies undisturbed, in the end all there would be left would be one big parking space and a mall with an entertainment park on one side (probably the "white" side) and a big refinery, or nuclear power plant, whichever you prefer, on the other.

I'm sure I'll be hit by lightning next but what this world really needs to keep the balance and protect itself from us is a natural disaster now and again. God must have a sense of humour to let us think that we are bringing it upon ourselves, then again maybe it isn't God, maybe it's Mother Nature.

And yes, I do try to be CO2 neutral. But it's no use crying...

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
OK, let's analyze this Global Warming stuff. How do we know it's happening? Why do we think it's happening, and why do we think so? Why do we care?

Well, it seems to me it's definitely happening.
I've seen islands disappear, the perma-frost (whatever the hell that is) is melting in Siberia and the average sea temperature is going up.

I heard one scientist explain that the earth always has heated up and cooled down, in a sort of wave like pattern. But that there's a temperature of no-return as well. This would be the + or the -, which would stop the earth's natural wave like pattern.

He went on to say that the warmer the earth gets, the less radiation (a certain sort, god knows which though) can rebound off the atmosphere and the warmer the planet will get. If you reach point X in this, then there's no way the earth will be able to cool off again.

Do I care? I didn't.
But, I saw a programme on the BBC about the perma-frost in Siberia. It's melting.
"So what!" Screamed I at the television, "I don't care about global temperatures. The warmer the better! LET IT FLOOD!!!"

Then, and this is the God's honest truth and I hope someone can back it up, the programme went on to say that beneath this frost layer there are mounds and mounds (and we're not talking about mole hills here) of rotting mammal dung (the proverbial elephant, one could ironically quip) full of methane. Or Butane. Or something like that. It wasn't alcohol, I'd have remembered that one...

Now, this methane, when it's released, is going to kill us all.
I don't mind about dying. Seriously. But I don't want to die by poop. It's aesthetically un-pleasing.

But, being the Oracle of wisdom that you know I am, I've come up with two solutions.

1. We flood Siberia. This means we have to heat the earth up faster than the perma-frost layer in Siberia is melting.

2. We strategically place 1.000.000.000 fridges in Siberia, with the doors open, all of them rigged up to a massive energy slurping reactor (preferably coal or something) and keep the perma frost cool. And because we're using so much energy, the rest of the global warming can continue as it is and we can all go off and sunbathe!

Well, except the Dutch... they're gonna have a bit of a problem.

Originally posted by shavixmir
Well, it seems to me it's definitely happening.
I've seen islands disappear, the perma-frost (whatever the hell that is) is melting in Siberia and the average sea temperature is going up.

I heard one scientist explain that the earth always has heated up and cooled down, in a sort of wave like pattern. But that there's a temperature of no-return as wel ...[text shortened]... the!

Well, except the Dutch... they're gonna have a bit of a problem.

So you extract heat in massive quantities from the arctic, and dump it where? You remember how a fridge works? You get the inside cold at the expense of making the outside hot, remember the hot coils or the hot air coming off the coils if there is a fan on them?
So where do you dump the excess heat? In the tropics, where it's already hot?
Where do you put this excess heat?

Originally posted by sonhouse
So you extract heat in massive quantities from the arctic, and dump it where? You remember how a fridge works? You get the inside cold at the expense of making the outside hot, remember the hot coils or the hot air coming off the coils if there is a fan on them?
So where do you dump the excess heat? In the tropics, where it's already hot?
Where do you put this excess heat?

Shav puts the heat at the beach where he wants it ....😕

Originally posted by flexmore
Shav puts the heat at the beach where he wants it ....😕

So he would heat up his fav beach to 200 degrees C? Hot time in the old town tonight🙂

Originally posted by sonhouse
So you extract heat in massive quantities from the arctic, and dump it where? You remember how a fridge works? You get the inside cold at the expense of making the outside hot, remember the hot coils or the hot air coming off the coils if there is a fan on them?
So where do you dump the excess heat? In the tropics, where it's already hot?
Where do you put this excess heat?

Into hot-air turbine driven cars.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So he would heat up his fav beach to 200 degrees C? Hot time in the old town tonight🙂

Now you're just being silly!

Originally posted by shavixmir
Into hot-air turbine driven cars.

Why take the roundabout way and not simply put the methane in cars?
If there is such a thing as dinosaur poop at all... I am cryptical. I mean cynical. Antiseptic. I don't want to drag creationism through this, but if those guys are right, the existence of your poop is questionable.

Originally posted by thyme
Why take the roundabout way and not simply put the methane in cars?
If there is such a thing as dinosaur poop at all... I am cryptical. I mean cynical. Antiseptic. I don't want to drag creationism through this, but if those guys are right, the existence of your poop is questionable.

i remember seeing an internet site where they had hundreds of signatures of people with phds sign that evolution is wrong and creationism true ...
.... maybe shav's poop does not exist!

Originally posted by thyme
Why take the roundabout way and not simply put the methane in cars?
If there is such a thing as dinosaur poop at all... I am cryptical. I mean cynical. Antiseptic. I don't want to drag creationism through this, but if those guys are right, the existence of your poop is questionable.

Whether it's dino-poop or whether it's the creationists are full of it... there's poop there somewhere and we're all gonna die in a smelly puddle of horror...


DIE!!!! AAAAAGGGGHHHHHHHHH

And I was just so happy to have survived Varanasi!