1. Joined
    17 Jun '08
    Moves
    143796
    09 May '17 08:17
    We've seen a scoring correction (thanks Russ)

    Good suggestions for an improved clan system came from our previous discussions

    I'd like us to re-visit them, umm... without the insults this time
  2. Joined
    07 Feb '09
    Moves
    134832
    09 May '17 15:31
    I suggest the following .....

    1. a cooling off period. Russ has already "blown his budget" on the clan feature. Suggest any modifications or improvements for 2018.

    2. keep in mind what the clan feature was originally intended to be. Any changes should be progressed with this fact in mind.

    3. problem statement - what problems are there with the clan feature. This should be sensible dialogue and NOT be about any grievances against any particular clan or individual.

    4. opportunities for improvement. keeping in mind the original intent of the clan feature (point 2). The attempt at a clan rating (mis-named ELO) is a good example of "lessons learned" in this regard.

    3 & 4 above may overlap but we should try to categorize any ideas separating problems and opportunities for improvement without changing the entire nature of the feature.
  3. SubscriberVery Rusty
    Treat Everyone Equal
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Joined
    04 Oct '06
    Moves
    411229
    09 May '17 16:27
    Originally posted by mghrn55
    I suggest the following .....

    1. a cooling off period. Russ has already "blown his budget" on the clan feature. Suggest any modifications or improvements for 2018.

    2. keep in mind what the clan feature was originally intended to be. Any changes should be progressed with this fact in mind.

    3. problem statement - what problems are there with the c ...[text shortened]... ng problems and opportunities for improvement without changing the entire nature of the feature.
    This does sound good in theory, but realistically what was happening was about individuals.

    I think the honor system was working great until a few malcontents decided to abuse it.
  4. Joined
    07 Feb '09
    Moves
    134832
    09 May '17 16:31
    Originally posted by Very Rusty
    This does sound good in theory, but realistically what was happening was about individuals.

    I think the honor system was working great until a few malcontents decided to abuse it.
    True.
    But the malcontents are gone.
    So we can move forward and identify any problems.
    Likely, there will be much fewer reports as much of the wing flapping has been eliminated.
  5. SubscriberVery Rusty
    Treat Everyone Equal
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Joined
    04 Oct '06
    Moves
    411229
    09 May '17 16:40
    Originally posted by mghrn55
    True.
    But the malcontents are gone.
    So we can move forward and identify any problems.
    Likely, there will be much fewer reports as much of the wing flapping has been eliminated.
    I agree to a point, but there are still a few malcontents left. As we know it only takes one bad apple to spoil the whole basket.

    Moving forward and identifying the problem(s) seem like the next logical step to take.
  6. Joined
    05 Jan '05
    Moves
    512404
    09 May '17 19:11
    Originally posted by mghrn55
    I suggest the following .....

    1. a cooling off period. Russ has already "blown his budget" on the clan feature. Suggest any modifications or improvements for 2018.

    2. keep in mind what the clan feature was originally intended to be. Any changes should be progressed with this fact in mind.

    3. problem statement - what problems are there with the c ...[text shortened]... ng problems and opportunities for improvement without changing the entire nature of the feature.
    i disagree with a cooling off period, i think it is better to get changes through sooner than later, why wait another 7 months if good suggestions are put forward
  7. Joined
    07 Feb '09
    Moves
    134832
    09 May '17 21:59
    Originally posted by Wycombe Al
    i disagree with a cooling off period, i think it is better to get changes through sooner than later, why wait another 7 months if good suggestions are put forward
    Too many of the changes were a results of the whining of a few malcontents.
    And the biggest issue, collusion, now has a solution.

    If we step back a bit, we can monitor how big the other problems were.

    Look at some of the stuff the few malcontents came up with:
    - clan member rotation
    - resigning games in decided challenges. And the accusation was that only one clan was doing it !! How often does this happen if it does ??
    - sandbagging. Which is not a clan problem. It is a site problem. And the accusations are purely objective.

    2017 is nearly half over. Suggest we pursue something in a coordinated fashion for the 2018 clan season. I wasn't suggesting we step back for a year, just maybe a month or 2.

    We have some good ideas in the bank (site ideas).
    Let's see what the clan feature looks like over the next couple of months.
  8. Joined
    02 Sep '09
    Moves
    87023
    10 May '17 00:05
    I like the idea of a clan only rating. Sometimes I like to play non-clan games against much higher rated players just to try and learn and stay humble. Most of the time I get whooped pretty bad and this does push my rating down a bit. I don't want that to be construed as trying to lower my rating for clan play. Make sense?
  9. Here
    Joined
    31 May '06
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    288837
    10 May '17 04:59
    Originally posted by carystover
    I like the idea of a clan only rating. Sometimes I like to play non-clan games against much higher rated players just to try and learn and stay humble. Most of the time I get whooped pretty bad and this does push my rating down a bit. I don't want that to be construed as trying to lower my rating for clan play. Make sense?
    You can do that already by playing non rated games
  10. Here
    Joined
    31 May '06
    Moves
    288837
    10 May '17 05:02
    Originally posted by mghrn55
    Too many of the changes were a results of the whining of a few malcontents.
    And the biggest issue, collusion, now has a solution.

    If we step back a bit, we can monitor how big the other problems were.

    Look at some of the stuff the few malcontents came up with:
    - clan member rotation
    - resigning games in decided challenges. And the accusation was th ...[text shortened]... e bank (site ideas).
    Let's see what the clan feature looks like over the next couple of months.
    If we do let things go on as you suggest it will just die a death and next year it will be an even bigger problem
    Let's get to it now and make it right for the future
  11. SubscriberBigDoggProblem
    The Advanced Mind
    bigdogghouse.com/RHP
    Joined
    26 Nov '04
    Moves
    110624
    11 May '17 03:00
    The malcontents are never gone. They are under the surface, probing for weaknesses.
  12. Here
    Joined
    31 May '06
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    288837
    11 May '17 16:20
    Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
    The malcontents are never gone. They are under the surface, probing for weaknesses.
    ?????????????
  13. Subscriberroma45
    st johnstone
    Joined
    14 Nov '09
    Moves
    341519
    11 May '17 20:07
    Originally posted by Giannotti
    We've seen a scoring correction (thanks Russ)

    Good suggestions for an improved clan system came from our previous discussions

    I'd like us to re-visit them, umm... without the insults this time
    i don't think Russ has finished with the investigation yet

    good to see some points removed and mctayto banned from clans

    a good start but a few more rats need drowned first before we can move on
  14. Joined
    07 Feb '09
    Moves
    134832
    11 May '17 20:41
    Originally posted by padger
    If we do let things go on as you suggest it will just die a death and next year it will be an even bigger problem
    Let's get to it now and make it right for the future
    Valid point.
    I think what I was saying was that Russ would step back for a bit.
    He spent more time than he wanted on a proposal that didn't fly.

    Our suggestions are still in the forum.
    And I know that he has been reading them.

    The 5 move window for a game to count towards challenge results was one of my ideas. 😀
  15. Joined
    07 Feb '09
    Moves
    134832
    11 May '17 21:44
    Originally posted by mghrn55
    Valid point.
    I think what I was saying was that Russ would step back for a bit.
    He spent more time than he wanted on a proposal that didn't fly.

    Our suggestions are still in the forum.
    And I know that he has been reading them.

    The 5 move window for a game to count towards challenge results was one of my ideas. 😀
    And just to add to the thumbs down, it was the implementation of my idea that knocked Easy Riders off the top of the 2016 clan table.

    You're welcome !! 😀
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