1. Standard memberzakkwylder
    Mouth for war
    Burlington, KY
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    10 Jan '04
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    53836
    18 Jun '08 07:33
    Though I'm not a victim of this myself at least in recent memory, I do feel it is ludicrous that somebody can go on vacation and be exempt from time out yet still time out there games for wins. Case in point, Game 4827114.
    Nothing personal against TsP, but I feel that is absolutely ridiculous and an abuse of the system.
  2. Standard memberGalaxyShield
    Mr. Shield
    Joined
    02 Sep '04
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    174290
    18 Jun '08 07:46
    Originally posted by zakkwylder
    Though I'm not a victim of this myself at least in recent memory, I do feel it is ludicrous that somebody can go on vacation and be exempt from time out yet still time out there games for wins. Case in point, Game 4827114.
    Nothing personal against TsP, but I feel that is absolutely ridiculous and an abuse of the system.
    Agreed.
  3. Amsterdam
    Joined
    04 Feb '06
    Moves
    48602
    18 Jun '08 09:45
    Vacation settings should be like a total freeze of all your games..
    When you put up the vacation flag, you should not be able to make any move and all time controls should be frozen..

    (I mean, what's the logic to let the clock continue to tick while on vacation, so that you will be out of any timebank when you return..)
  4. Standard memberadim
    Brian Hugh Warner
    On top
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    18 Jun '08 09:54
    Stupid idea.
    I'm in vacation now because I'm out of the town and I didn't know if I my mobile internet connection will work in that place. Fortunately it did, so I have made my moves (including timing out two games). What's wrong with that? Why didn't Carlitos use his vacation time? Vacation and time outs are two different things without any relation between them.
  5. Joined
    11 Nov '05
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    43938
    18 Jun '08 10:051 edit
    Originally posted by Amsterdamn
    Vacation settings should be like a total freeze of all your games..
    When you put up the vacation flag, you should not be able to make any move and all time controls should be frozen..

    (I mean, what's the logic to let the clock continue to tick while on vacation, so that you will be out of any timebank when you return..)
    I agree. But the system works that way, and not enough members agree.

    I have an old propolsal about sealed moves, that when you set the vacation flags your opponent moves are sealed until you are back from the vacation and reset the flag. During the vacancy, the times dosn't tick at all for you.

    The current vacation system gives you immunity for being timed out, nothing more, that's all. This could be used, quite profitable, in certain tournaments.

    When I bring up the 'abuse' word, I'm tend to be flamed of people not agreeing with me, so I stay quiet this time.

    However, I think that the vacation system seems to be a low priority matter by the staff of RHP. What we have, we have.
  6. Joined
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    17163
    18 Jun '08 10:13
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    I agree. But the system works that way, and not enough members agree.

    I have an old propolsal about sealed moves, that when you set the vacation flags your opponent moves are sealed until you are back from the vacation and reset the flag. During the vacancy, the times dosn't tick at all for you.

    The current vacation system gives you immunity for bei ...[text shortened]... cation system seems to be a low priority matter by the staff of RHP. What we have, we have.
    I disagree.
  7. Amsterdam
    Joined
    04 Feb '06
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    48602
    18 Jun '08 12:20
    Originally posted by kenan
    I disagree.
    Wow, what a structured response.. 😉

    Please tell me how the current vacation settings make any sense!?

    Why should you be able to make moves when you're stating to be on vacation.. if you want to continue to move, why putting up that flag then?

    Why doesn't the time stop when you put your vacation flag up? Only to return to the game without any timebank left and then having an increased risk of being timed out anyways (or like you have set vacation until date x, only to return to the boards at x+1 day and find a dozen of games being timed out within a day after your vacation settings end) (okay, for those who continue to make moves during their vacation settings this does not apply)

    The current system only prevents you from being timed out in that particular set of time... what's the true added value of the current vacation system??
  8. Standard memberIchibanov
    King of slow
    Joined
    12 Oct '06
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    14424
    18 Jun '08 13:12
    I agree.

    🙂

    OK, a little more.

    I like the sealed move idea. I'm guessing the idea here would be that the move would be entered but it's actual execution would be delayed until the vacationing party exited vacation mode? Basically a conditional move where the condition was the unsetting of the opponent's vacation flag?

    That would eliminate the need to prevent public viewing of the game while someone is on vacation. Otherwise, they could just logout to see their opponent's move.

    I'd love to see a clock-freeze vacation. I also know it'll likely never happen, but that doesn't mean we should stop pushing for it.
  9. Donationmwmiller
    RHP Member No.16
    Joined
    25 Feb '01
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    57953
    18 Jun '08 14:271 edit
    The rules of chess apply equally to both players. They are not intended to give one player an advantage over the other.

    If this is the case with chess rules, then new rules added by RHP to help maintain fairness while a player is on vacation should not give one player an advantage over others. That is in direct conflict with the spirit and intent of having rules.

    I don't see any problem with allowing a player to make moves while on vacation, but if one player is protected from being timed out while their vacation flag is up, the protected player should not be allowed to claim a time out win while they are exempt.

    In other words when a player puts up their vacation flag, their games should be exempt from time controls, not just one of the players.

    If there is a grace period that goes into effect once the vacation flag is lowered, then that should also apply to the games rather than the players, and perhaps an email notification should be sent to let both players know that time controls for the game will soon be restored.

    Just my thoughts......
  10. Standard memberzakkwylder
    Mouth for war
    Burlington, KY
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    18 Jun '08 14:32
    I couldn't have said it better.
  11. Joined
    06 May '05
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    9174
    18 Jun '08 15:51
    Originally posted by Amsterdamn
    Vacation settings should be like a total freeze of all your games..
    When you put up the vacation flag, you should not be able to make any move and all time controls should be frozen..

    (I mean, what's the logic to let the clock continue to tick while on vacation, so that you will be out of any timebank when you return..)
    But then you could put your vacation flag up until you decide on your best move, then take it off and move.

    The odd thing about the suggestions to freeze games while on vacation is that it's usually a complaint that the games take too long. Freezing games when you're on vacation causes more games to take longer than they would without it though.
  12. Standard memberzakkwylder
    Mouth for war
    Burlington, KY
    Joined
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    53836
    18 Jun '08 15:54
    I fear my suggestion has perhaps gone too far. I'm not asking for time controls to be frozen while a flag is up, nor am I asking for the games themselves to be frozen either. There have been plenty of times I have gone away and was not counting on being able to move on my games. As luck would have it I was able to do so, I'm merely suggesting that if you are exempt from timeout then you shouldn't be able to play both sides of the fence by timing out your opponents.
  13. Standard memberPhlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    tinyurl.com/3sbbwd4
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    18 Jun '08 16:34
    Originally posted by zakkwylder
    I fear my suggestion has perhaps gone too far. I'm not asking for time controls to be frozen while a flag is up, nor am I asking for the games themselves to be frozen either. There have been plenty of times I have gone away and was not counting on being able to move on my games. As luck would have it I was able to do so, I'm merely suggesting that if you ...[text shortened]... eout then you shouldn't be able to play both sides of the fence by timing out your opponents.
    If people don't want to get timed out they should watch THEIR clock.

    Even if you change things so vacationers can't time you out, they can just cancel, click, and vacation again.

    It's pointless, make your moves on time regardless what the other player does.

    P-
  14. Standard memberPhlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    tinyurl.com/3sbbwd4
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    18 Jun '08 16:36
    Originally posted by zakkwylder
    I fear my suggestion has perhaps gone too far. I'm not asking for time controls to be frozen while a flag is up, nor am I asking for the games themselves to be frozen either. There have been plenty of times I have gone away and was not counting on being able to move on my games. As luck would have it I was able to do so, I'm merely suggesting that if you ...[text shortened]... eout then you shouldn't be able to play both sides of the fence by timing out your opponents.
    It's called spite. "They won't move in MY games, so shouldn't move in ANY!"

    Change a rule and ruin it for everyone because they are not finishing games fast enough, so slow down ALL games.

    P-
  15. Standard memberRagnorak
    For RHP addons...
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    18 Jun '08 18:38
    Originally posted by mwmiller
    The rules of chess apply equally to both players. They are not intended to give one player an advantage over the other.

    If this is the case with chess rules, then new rules added by RHP to help maintain fairness while a player is on vacation should not give one player an advantage over others. That is in direct conflict with the spirit and intent of ha ...[text shortened]... h players know that time controls for the game will soon be restored.

    Just my thoughts......
    Both players get their allotment of "vacation". It is up to each player how and when they use it.

    You speak about equality in chess. But how is giving your opponent 72 days vacation (their own plus yours) fair? If they have already used their allotment, and you think you may not be able to meet the time controls so use some of yours, how is it fair for your opponent to get more "vacation" time?

    D
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