sanctions against cheaters

@Gatecrasher:
It is completely fair, but one move would be totally impossible to prove. Many moves over many games would be required. But just like you can't be slightly pregnant, you can't slightly cheat. You either do or you don't.
You just say the opposite of what I say. And you just change facts. If you have problems with "one move", replace it with "one game". Here I really don't see the connex to pregnancy: yes, you can cheat a bit. Perhaps you've never done it, but when I play cards with friends, I almost never cheat. One a year I cheat. So I cheat "a bit when playing cards". I do agree, that you can't let think a computer "a bit" for you or something like that.

Actually, this is Russ's website, and this is a dictatorship, not a democracy. And we have virtually no rights. The right to play is totally at Russ's discrection. The fact that he consults with users and conducts opinion polls is a privilege afforded to us, not a right.
No, this site is NOT dictatorship. Russ seems to be a very friendly person. He has good reasons to do that.
You do think very much in fundamental statements, okay, here is my answer for you: He does have the power, but not the right to act like a dictator. I will probably do nothing, when he kicks me off the site just for fun. But this changes nothing, that this is not legal. I even think that he does not have the right to say "I don't like turnaments, they just don't exist anymore". I paid, we have a contract and he has to keep up this service for me.
What do you think why Microsoft had so much trouble with integrating Internet Explorer into their Operating system? "Well, you just bought the software, if you don't like it, uninstall Windows." could you say. But some juges have other opionions on that.
Perhaps this example isn't very well chosen, but it isn't that simple: "This is a dictatorship site". It would be redicular to "fight" against beeing kicked off, but it should be possible. Don't try to make this site what is is not. It is quite democratic. And Russ has the power. (Power is not the opposite of democracy.)

Wonderful, so when a cheater is found out, he is politely informed that he is only allowed to be caught cheating four more times, and then only then will he be kicked off. Much easier to put up a sign, "Cheaters welcome!"
Stealing isn't good. When you steal something in you home country (just a guess now), you will no go to prison for ten years. I just proposed something to motivate people to think about other ways of punishment. How do you want to punish what? That's the question!

@dooser2004
okay, this is interesting, but I think cheating should be punished. If you "allow" cheating, ratings get superflous.
But you are right. This is a game, nothing more. 🙂
And I see very well what mateulose said. Cheating should be punished.

@Gatecrasher:
But even with a database you still have to choose the best move to play.
Do you think this is not the case when I let some engines think for me? 😵 All cheaters made all their moves here themselfes. They just asked for forbidden help of an engine (or another human) and not for allowed help of a database. BTW: Why are databases allowed? Try to answer this question. I don't know why.

okay, I think I am up-to-date in the thread 🙂
th

I am only an amatuer but allow me to try this question.

Books, databases vs engines.

Books = reference
database = electronic reference

These are tools used to reference and learn. They do not tell you which game to pick or which line to use, this is something you must do for yourself.

Engine = cheating, the engine tells you what move to make. Thier is no personal descision made by the player other then to just cheat.

Originally posted by thire
[b]@Gatecrasher:
It is completely fair, but one move would be totally impossible to prove. Many moves over many games would be required. But just like you can't be slightly pregnant, you can't slightly cheat. You either do or you don't.
You just say the opposite of what I say. And you just change facts. If you have problems with "one move", r ...[text shortened]... o answer this question. I don't know why.

okay, I think I am up-to-date in the thread 🙂
th[/b]

Who really cares about the amount of time spent cheating? You either cheat or you don't. Cheating either a little bit or a lot is still cheating.

Russ is very friendly dictator. As all sensible business people are. There is nothing very democratic about any of the businesses I know, at least not in terms of its clients. Perhaps if we were all shareholders in RHP and we had annual general meetings were we could vote Russ off the board, then things would be different. But that is not the case. We pay a fee and we receive a service in return. I'm glad to say, because of the way Russ runs things here, the actual exerience at RHP is far more agreeable than the clinical reality. But it doesn't change the fact that this is not a democracy.

Punishment is completely up to Russ. If he wants my opinion, I say ban. Alternatively, they get a permanent 1200C rating, and can no longer play competitive (rated) games, and that includes tournaments and clan games.

Finally, databases. Why are they allowed? I think this is one of the most frequently answered questions on RHP...

The simplest answer is because RHP is a correspondence chess site. Correspondence chess rules allow books and databases. Now if the rules of RHP disallowed databases, then clearly the use of databases would be cheating. But since it is allowed, it is not cheating. Engines are not allowed. So using an engine is cheating. I hope you are following my logic here. Database, okay. Engine, not okay. Those are the rules.

Who decided on these rules for RHP? Why, Russ did, of course. After all, it's a democracy, isn't it?

Originally posted by Kranium
Hi Thire-

I can sum it up from a casual user's perspective:

There seems to alot of animosity here. It's not what I would call a real friendly site. If you read the forums you will find thread after thread full of cheating accusations, insults, belligerence, etc. (clearly, some of the loudest complainers are possibly using engines themselves!), and ...[text shortened]... n eventual inquisition by the 'cheat police' with whom your fate would seem to rest.

Norm

BRAVO!!!
You are 100% correct in diagnosing part of the problem. Nobody can accomplish diddily squat here because as soon as you try some idiot jumps in and starts attacking you!

I think a lot of players on here use this database...
http://www.chesslab.com/PositionSearch.html

Hey, nice site! Thanks for passing this on! 🙂

Originally posted by arrakis
BRAVO!!!
You are 100% correct in diagnosing part of the problem. Nobody can accomplish diddily squat here because as soon as you try some idiot jumps in and starts attacking you!

Nobody cannot accomplish anything here with their head in the sand, either. You're constant siding with cheaters and/or people who oppose the Game Mod concept entirely and hostility to those who have championed against cheaters and for the Game Mods shows your total unfitness to be on the Cheat Police.

a lot of things have been said about demogracy, killing, databases and engines...
I want to sum up possible punishments for cheaters, that interest me:
* ban the player from the site, when he cheated once
* freeze his rating to 1200 or 500
* contact him per mail and tell him his is not good
* ignore it, do nothing
* warn him 5 times, then kick him off
* "brandmark" him: add something in his profile like "this is a cheater"
* do not allow him to play any rated games
* do not allow him to play in turnaments and clans
* warn his opponents, that he may cheat
...
th

Originally posted by no1marauder
Nobody cannot accomplish anything here with their head in the sand, either. You're constant siding with cheaters and/or people who oppose the Game Mod concept entirely and hostility to those who have championed against cheaters and for the Game Mods shows your total unfitness to be on the Cheat Police.

no1marauder-
arrakis is simply stating his opinion here...why must you immediately attack/insult him..? just because you disagree?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Nobody cannot accomplish anything here with their head in the sand, either. You're constant siding with cheaters and/or people who oppose the Game Mod concept entirely and hostility to those who have championed against cheaters and for the Game Mods shows your total unfitness to be on the Cheat Police.

Here we go again...
no1marauder, you are going to carry this problem with you till your death bed. :-(
I feel sorry for you, my son.

Originally posted by Kranium
no1marauder-
arrakis is simply stating his opinion here...why must you immediately attack/insult him..? just because you disagree?

It looks like the guy's mouth drips acid... maybe his wife left him for a younger man? Maybe his kids don't want anything to do with him? Who knows what hell a person might be living with that would make them like that.

One thing I've learned about people though, the one's who can't control their own lives are usually the ones who have a need to dominate others.

Originally posted by arrakis
It looks like the guy's mouth drips acid... maybe his wife left him for a younger man? Maybe his kids don't want anything to do with him? Who knows what hell a person might be living with that would make them like that.

One thing I've learned about people though, the one's who can't control their own lives are usually the ones who have a need to dominate others.

I've said before that I don't have any personal issues here. YOU'RE the one trying to make it personal and refusing to answer my points. Why should someone who defends cheaters and supports those who oppose the Cheat Police concept be a member of the Game Mods, Arrakis?

PS I wish my wife would leave me!

Originally posted by arrakis
It looks like the guy's mouth drips acid... maybe his wife left him for a younger man? Maybe his kids don't want anything to do with him? Who knows what hell a person might be living with that would make them like that.

You go too far - is there anything edifying in these comments? You do yourself much harm, not #1, with such an attack.

To actually address the point of this thread, I made a suggestion some time ago that players be offered an Amnesty program IF they admit cheating in the past - they'd be put on some type of probation and their games carefully scrutinzed by the Game Mods. I'm undecided whether this admission should be public or not - there's good points either way. I'm not sure automatically banning ANYBODY who ever cheated in a game is the way to go though I don't care for the "C" rating idea; either you're entitled to the perks of site subscribership or not. If people want to follow up on these points I'd be interested to hear some thoughts.

Originally posted by Nyxie
I am only an amatuer but allow me to try this question.

Books, databases vs engines.

Books = reference
database = electronic reference

These are tools used to reference and learn. They do not tell you which game to pick or which line to use, this is something you must do for yourself.

Engine = cheating, the engine tells you what move to make. Thier is no personal descision made by the player other then to just cheat.

er hang on, Books, well alot of those are opening books and they certainly DO tell you what move to make.

Databases, well there mostly collections of thousands of games, and yes they also can tell you what move to make, you do a search, find all the games that match your opening and line of play, and bingo.

See this is something ive never understood about corry chess, you allow referance to books, you allow referance to databases, then you all throw a tantrum and cry cheat when someone uses an engine,

very strange, but hey this is the internet, lol

Regards FGWE

Originally posted by The Swine Down Hope
You go too far - is there anything edifying in these comments? You do yourself much harm, not #1, with such an attack.

Pardon me dude, but anyone who reads the forums HAS to have seen this guy's absurd and ridiculous mad cravings to attack anyone and everyone who trys to post their ersonal opinons!

Damage to myself? HAH! no1 marauder has become his own worst enemy... and he drags all who support him down with him.