1. SubscriberPonderable
    chemist
    Linkenheim
    Joined
    22 Apr '05
    Moves
    518345
    10 May '12 11:11
    [threadid]143638[threadid] was closed after some discussion without much effect. (And it has just been the most recent one)

    To summarize what I perceive as facts:

    * Subscribers have vacation days to be used to stop the time out when the player is on avacation (hence the name).

    * Some people use vacation days to evade timeouts, they have to fear due to their inability to organise their time. (Especially in hardcore tournaments).

    Some suggestions on the vacation front have been made in the past:

    # Abolish vacations altogether. Here we have the point, that vacations have been the result of a general vote. Furthermore we do have the problem, that one can't forsee the starting of new rounds in tournaments.

    # render players on vacation unable to move themselves. Here we have the point that some players would rather that their counterpart moves if possible. The other counterargument is that a lot of timeouts might have collected and if someone waited for the sign to vanish (after the first move) could claim their timeout defeating the purpose of vacations.

    # restrict players from taking a time-out while on vacation (this should be pretty easy to implement).

    # make tournaments "no vacation" where the vacation sign would not be effective against time-outs. (this could be difficult to implement)

    # anounce at least how long a given player will be on vacation to plan accordingly

    Question is: can we rally enogh support on one (or more) of these suggestions to put pressure on the administration?
  2. Subscriberroma45
    st johnstone
    Joined
    14 Nov '09
    Moves
    344744
    10 May '12 11:25
    Originally posted by Ponderable
    [threadid]143638[threadid] was closed after some discussion without much effect. (And it has just been the most recent one)

    To summarize what I perceive as facts:

    * Subscribers have vacation days to be used to stop the time out when the player is on avacation (hence the name).

    * Some people use vacation days to evade timeouts, they have to fear d ...[text shortened]... ly enogh support on one (or more) of these suggestions to put pressure on the administration?
    i would keep vacation time, for people who really go on holiday or just want a break, but the minute they make a move in any game they lose their vacation time. this would help put a stop to the 1/0 players who hide behind the flag, dragging out what is meant to be fast games
  3. SubscriberKewpie
    since 1-Feb-07
    Joined
    20 Jan '09
    Moves
    318103
    10 May '12 11:411 edit
    Consider the chess.com approach. Players can make moves while on vacation, but only by suspending the vacation, thus giving timeout opportunities to any opponent who is around at the time. Could make things more difficult for those trying to manipulate the system.

    Another possibility: allow "no-vacation" tourneys and/or individual games. Again, chess.com manages the "no-vacation" tourney so it must be possible to implement.

    Programmers should always be willing to copy good ideas, after all they can see what is actually feasible if someone's making it work.
  4. SubscriberVery Rusty
    Treat Everyone Equal
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Joined
    04 Oct '06
    Moves
    415878
    11 May '12 22:37
    Leave the vacation as it is!

    It is good to have when you want a break or to actually go on a Vacation.

    It is fine for those of you who live on the site to say get rid of vacations. Most of you don't play enough games at a time to even be involved in the conversation.
  5. Subscribervenda
    Dave
    S.Yorks.England
    Joined
    18 Apr '10
    Moves
    59174
    11 May '12 22:38
    Originally posted by Ponderable
    [threadid]143638[threadid] was closed after some discussion without much effect. (And it has just been the most recent one)

    To summarize what I perceive as facts:

    * Subscribers have vacation days to be used to stop the time out when the player is on avacation (hence the name).

    * Some people use vacation days to evade timeouts, they have to fear d ...[text shortened]... ly enogh support on one (or more) of these suggestions to put pressure on the administration?
    Vacation time is finite isn't it?
    Are all players subjected to the same maximum vacation time?
    If so, anyone who uses their vacation time to avoid skulls is going to "run out" sooner or later.
  6. Standard memberRevRSleeker
    CerebrallyChallenged
    Lyme BayChesil Beach
    Joined
    09 Dec '06
    Moves
    17848
    12 May '12 10:02
    Originally posted by venda
    Vacation time is finite isn't it?
    Are all players subjected to the same maximum vacation time?
    If so, anyone who uses their vacation time to avoid skulls is going to "run out" sooner or later.
    Exactly Dave, never can quite understand the fuss...big deal, 'some' just throw out their flag to actively protect their games..they overdo it on games and flag time is just a temporary stop gap and they will run out of time..why is everyone in in such a damned big rush around here, this is a turn site for goodness sake and flag time as you say is finite..BUT horses for courses; why is my 'factual holiday' time any different to someone just using their days as they wish..it's what they pay for and they merely use the facility.
    Chess.com temporary 'lifting' of flag time isn't so, there you are either on holiday or you're not and the moment you move you lose that days flag time..IF we use chess.com as a 'moral example' of just exactly the way to do flag time, then the more you pay the more your flag time...$99 buys you 90days, $49 gets 60 and the poor old 'rest of us' get basically what we get here, 30days plus change for $29 but consider the discounts for long term users and they're pretty similar. SO, yes please, I'd love it, 'buying flag time'...I could really use it and I promise, ONLY LEGIT holidays...honest 😉
  7. Joined
    18 Jan '07
    Moves
    6896
    12 May '12 14:29
    Originally posted by Very Rusty
    Leave the vacation as it is!

    It is good to have when you want a break or to actually go on a Vacation.

    It is fine for those of you who live on the site to say get rid of vacations. Most of you don't play enough games at a time to even be involved in the conversation.
    Not the point. The problem isn't vacations; the problem is people who move freely during their so-called "vacations", and merrily time people out without being susceptible to time-outs themselves. This is obviously cheating, but since it's cheating by the overclass against the underclass this is not seen as a problem by the site owners.

    Making a vacation automatically cancel whenever a move (or meta-move, such as taking a time-out) is made would solve that problem. So would making it impossible to make a move while on vacation. Either solution would make the "vacation" feature actually a vacation feature, instead of a way for members to cheat against non-members.

    Richard
  8. Standard memberPhlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    tinyurl.com/3sbbwd4
    Joined
    27 Mar '03
    Moves
    17242
    13 May '12 15:50
    There are 365 days in a year.

    You get 36 days of vacation.

    Cripes! Quit crying!
  9. Standard memberPhlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    tinyurl.com/3sbbwd4
    Joined
    27 Mar '03
    Moves
    17242
    13 May '12 15:52
    Originally posted by Shallow Blue
    Not the point. The problem isn't vacations; the problem is people who move freely during their so-called "vacations", and merrily time people out without being susceptible to time-outs themselves. This is obviously cheating, but since it's cheating by the overclass against the underclass this is not seen as a problem by the site owners.

    Making ...[text shortened]... a vacation feature, instead of a way for members to cheat against non-members.

    Richard
    Sure, punish everyone over a handful of people abusing the system. That's like outlawing cars because a few people drive drunk.
  10. SubscriberVery Rusty
    Treat Everyone Equal
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Joined
    04 Oct '06
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    415878
    13 May '12 21:04
    Originally posted by Shallow Blue
    Not the point. The problem isn't vacations; the problem is people who move freely during their so-called "vacations", and merrily time people out without being susceptible to time-outs themselves. This is obviously cheating, but since it's cheating by the overclass against the underclass this is not seen as a problem by the site owners.

    Making ...[text shortened]... a vacation feature, instead of a way for members to cheat against non-members.

    Richard
    So, what you're telling me is that people get timed out because someone moved on their vacation?

    Isn't it up to EVERYONE to keep track of their time?

    Many folks, myself being one of them like to see people move on their vacation, as it helps move the game along. IF I don't move & TIME OUT, THAT IS MY OWN TOUGH LUCK.

    Stop Crying & Play The Game!!!
  11. Joined
    18 Jan '07
    Moves
    6896
    16 May '12 10:51
    Originally posted by Very Rusty
    Stop Crying & Play The Game!!!
    Yup, that's exactly what I want to say to the people who use their vacation as a time-out protection cheat.

    Go on vacation or do not go on vacation.
    Play the game or do not play the game.
    You shouldn't be allowed to have it both ways.

    Richard
  12. Hy-Brasil
    Joined
    24 Feb '09
    Moves
    175970
    16 May '12 12:20
    Originally posted by Shallow Blue
    Yup, that's exactly what I want to say to the people who use their vacation as a time-out protection cheat.

    Go on vacation or do not go on vacation.
    Play the game or do not play the game.
    You shouldn't be allowed to have it both ways.

    Richard
    Why is Richard the non sub discussing a subscriber only feature ? 🙄
  13. SubscriberPonderable
    chemist
    Linkenheim
    Joined
    22 Apr '05
    Moves
    518345
    16 May '12 12:53
    Originally posted by Ponderable
    [b][cut]
    Question is: can we rally enogh support on one (or more) of these suggestions to put pressure on the administration?
    So we have no gain to the original state as yet. And the question is answered: no.

    But if we number the questions. Could you give an indication if you would support one of the following suggestions?

    #1 Abolish vacations altogether. Here we have the point, that vacations have been the result of a general vote. Furthermore we do have the problem, that one can't forsee the starting of new rounds in tournaments.

    #2 render players on vacation unable to move themselves. Here we have the point that some players would rather that their counterpart moves if possible. The other counterargument is that a lot of timeouts might have collected and if someone waited for the sign to vanish (after the first move) could claim their timeout defeating the purpose of vacations.

    #3 restrict players from taking a time-out while on vacation (this should be pretty easy to implement).

    #4 make tournaments "no vacation" where the vacation sign would not be effective against time-outs. (this could be difficult to implement)

    #5 anounce at least how long a given player will be on vacation to plan accordingly

    I would support #3 and #5 myself.
  14. Hy-Brasil
    Joined
    24 Feb '09
    Moves
    175970
    16 May '12 13:02
    I agree with the others who say, leave it alone. It's a fine system and should not be tampered with.
  15. SubscriberKewpie
    since 1-Feb-07
    Joined
    20 Jan '09
    Moves
    318103
    16 May '12 13:26
    "Leave the vacation alone" seems to be the general opinion among subscribers, but you have to think of the 6-gamer who has 2 or 3 games tied up with vacations of an unknown length. Nonsubs may be despised by some in this community, but they are a significant part of our player base and shouldn't be treated too badly or they'll go elsewhere and we'll all be the poorer for it.
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