+Robinson on biblical opposition to homosexuality

Originally posted by dj2becker
If you create bad karma in this life, could you appear as a cabbage in the next life? And if you eat cabbage in this life, aren't you then eating one of your ancestors who created bad karma in their previous life?

The material body is not the person, it is just dust in the wind.

The real person is the spiritual soul.

The cabbage is the dust, and is animated to growth by the souls presents.

And if you are really sinful you can easily end up in the plant kingdom for a short while.

You see theres no difference between the body of a carrot and your body.......both are just dust in the wind. ( the same stuff) so for the soul to animate one or the other, is not hard to accept.

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b]The homosexual urge is a characteristic beginning at birth, and has something to do with the karma.

Could you develop that point a little?[/b]

Homosexuality the condition of being gay, is present at birth, and is a psychological attraction to same sex.

Then there are others who are just curious, and are not homosexual, but experiment with same the same sex.

Thats all thats needed to be known I would say.....unless you can add something.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
The perfect food for man is milk and milk products ,fruits, vegetables and grains,..... but its not as bad to consume fish oysters and prawns because they are not highly sentient life forms, because the consciousness is less developed and the sensory perception is lower.

But persons on the spiritual path refrain from all non vegetarian food.

Carrot ...[text shortened]... nly way to create no karma is to engage in the spiritual life, which is our natural life anyway.

Grain is the perfect food for man? Are you mad?!

Milk products?? What about those people who don't have a mutation on chromosone 2 and therefore the enzyme lactase isn't produced into adulthood?!

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Homosexuality the condition of being gay, is present at birth, and is a psychological attraction to same sex.

Then there are others who are just curious, and are not homosexual, but experiment with same the same sex.

Thats all thats needed to be known I would say.....unless you can add something.

No, I want you to clarify what you mean when you say that homosexuality is a result of karma.

Greetings,

Years ago I was in a hyper-literal-Bible group
and we said homosexuals were not saved according
to our theology.

I am no longer in this sect but here was our thinking.

-------------------------------------
=====================================

(1) After salvation a person would not make a
practice of disobeying God. Occasional slip ups
might happen but not a self-aware lifestyle.

because . . .

After salvation a person gets a new inner man, a new
nature born into him/her spiritually so that the person
would choose to not sin once they knew God's will
on a topic - ex. do not kill, steal, etc.

If a person did live a lifestyle of stealing that would show
they do not yet have the born again, "new" inner man because
a born again individual would never continue to choose
to disobey God as a lifestyle.

Note the disobedient lifestyle (continuous stealing)
is the issue - not occasional sins. - and not
salvation by "works."


(2) Homosexuality is defined as sin in a literal Bible interpretation.

In my old church we took every Bible word literally so
in I Cor 6:9-11 when we found the Greek word in the original
text to be the word meaning "homosexuals" then we included
homosexuality in with stealing and the other things listed.

Hence if you were a thief as a lifestyle -> not born again.
If you were a homosexual as a lifestyle -> not born again.
etc.

----

(3) Since the cross the Old Covenant (Old Testament)
is fulfilled "in Christ" without us living by
it literally. So we did not do the Mosaic law such
as stoning people.

This is a very orthodox, normal view held by many Christians
so you never score any points by saying Christians must
perform the Mosaic law to be consistent.


-------------------------------------
=====================================


In my old church the above view was iron-tight w/r a sinning lifestyle
and homosexuality.

------




But if anyone would like to apply the
literal Greek words in I Cor 6:9=11 to the homosexuals
then would you apply the literal Scriptures throughout the New
Testament to yourself also????????

Obviously not. No one does this.

Want to try it ?
* read through the entire New Testament
* forbid yourself to think "that is not for today"
* take everything literally unless it is obviously a metaphor
* interpret it as a reader in the year 50AD would have read it and lived it


Years ago in my old church we lived a very, very
unique life trying to apply the New Testament in a very literal
way. We applied the literal Bible to ourselves as well as others.

Most people though would try to apply the literal Bible verse to the
homosexuals but then live a luke-warm, watered down version
of Christianity in their own lives <- makes me want to puke.

Originally posted by Pete9
Greetings,

Years ago I was in a hyper-literal-Bible group
and we said homosexuals were not saved according
to our theology.

I am no longer in this sect but here was our thinking.

-------------------------------------
=====================================

(1) After salvation a person would not make a
practice of disobeying God. Occasional slip u ...[text shortened]... m, watered down version
of Christianity in their own lives <- makes me want to puke.

==================================
Hence if you were a thief as a lifestyle -> not born again.
If you were a homosexual as a lifestyle -> not born again.
etc.
==============================

I don't know why your teachers made this leap.

Why would Paul make exhortations to the church (which only consists of believers) if it were impossible for the exhortation to apply to them ?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Oh has it been that long! 😉 Oh a lot has happened. Finished a degree and a post-grad. I’m three years into a teaching career, been married for a year and a half, moved countries, etc. I see nothing much has changed. Good to be back...

Congrats on all three fronts, and good luck on all four! Regrettably, not much has changed--- unless you count the natural degradation. Not that everything was so stellar five years ago, but much of what happens here these days is less dependent upon dialogue and more prone to spam.

Originally posted by Conrau K
No, I want you to clarify what you mean when you say that homosexuality is a result of karma.

Every condition of life that you find yourself in when born , is a result of past activities in previous lives.....conditions like, man or women, smart or dumb, blind or not blind, black or white, and heterosexual or homosexual and it all has something to do with what you where up to in the previous life.
Karma is the results of deeds, thoughts and words, done in the past.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Every condition of life that you find yourself in when born , is a result of past activities in previous lives.....conditions like, man or women, smart or dumb, blind or not blind, black or white, and heterosexual or homosexual and it all has something to do with what you where up to in the previous life.
Karma is the results of deeds, thoughts and words, done in the past.

this has to be the most cruellest doctrine i ever heard. A person whose child has been born with complications, must now try to attune themselves to the idea, that not only is their child born with deformities, but these deformities are the result of some past misdemeanour, compounding not only the difficulties of bringing up that child and the challenges faced therein, but adding to it the stigma of guilt for some past deed. It simply unacceptable on any level. The wages of sin is death, not punishment, once a person has died they are acquitted of their sin, the price has been paid, end of story.

Originally posted by Conrau K
I am genuinely interested to hear an explanation from some Christians here. For those Christians whose moral compass is purely informed by biblical mandate, isn't Robinson correct here in claiming an inconsistency when same Christians do not endorse the death penalty for homosexual activity? Do these same Christians also endorse the misogyny of purity laws ...[text shortened]... ttp://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2010/12/homosexuality_in_leviticus.html

So you (Catholic Christians) reject OT law?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
this has to be the most cruellest doctrine i ever heard. A person whose child has been born with complications, must now try to attune themselves to the idea, that not only is their child born with deformities, but these deformities are the result of some past misdemeanour, compounding not only the difficulties of bringing up that child and the chal ...[text shortened]... , once a person has died they are acquitted of their sin, the price has been paid, end of story.

I agree totally with you, robbie.

I cannot think that the spiritual universe is so cruel so a little child gets cancer because of the owner of his soul in a previous life was bad.

The whole concept of a soul is wrong, in my opinion, but I don't mind that people have that philosophy. But to explain childrens cancer as a reason of other peoples bad-doings, no, I cannot buy that.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I agree totally with you, robbie.

I cannot think that the spiritual universe is so cruel so some little child gets cancer becaus of the owner of his sould in a previous life was bad.

The whole concept of a soul is wrong, in my opinion, but I don't mind that people have that philosophy. But to explain childrens cancer as a reason of other peoples bad-doings, no, I cannot buy that.

yes its not only nonsensical, but utterly unjust.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
this has to be the most cruellest doctrine i ever heard. A person whose child has been born with complications, must now try to attune themselves to the idea, that not only is their child born with deformities, but these deformities are the result of some past misdemeanour, compounding not only the difficulties of bringing up that child and the chal ...[text shortened]... , once a person has died they are acquitted of their sin, the price has been paid, end of story.

Absolutely not true.

So your saying that God chose to make one person deaf dumb and blind, and the other not.....why would God do this.

There is no judgement or punishment, but only reaction to your deeds words and thoughts.

This is called karma and its impersonal and just acts impersonally... (its a law.)

Just like if you put your hand in the fire it will burn, and the flame doesn't say oh my gosh its a child putting their hand in the fire I will not burn them.

And your also saying that God kills the soul as well (death)....not true.

The soul is spiritual and indestructible.....so its forever eternal.

In Bhagavad Gita it is said:

B.G. vs24 Chpt 2 " This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same." also

B.G. Chpt 2 vs

"That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy the imperishable soul."

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The church falsely claims, that people should approach the church to get eternal life, but this is a dishonest teaching to get converts.

The church also dishonestly teaches that all people have only one life, to get then to surrender to Jesus the man. (Jesus was a teacher)

The Christian teachings are for meat eaters, and they have much error which misdirects the people away from true spiritual life.

The Christian teachings are the cause of so much atheism....because they cannot direct the people properly and have false knowledge.

Where are all the missing teachings from the Bible?

Everyone knows there are many teachings excluded form the Bible.

Karma is not cruel, its perfect universal justice............just stop sinning, thats all you have to do.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Absolutely not true.

So your saying that God chose to make one person deaf dumb and blind, and the other not.....why would God do this.

There is no judgement or punishment, but only reaction to your deeds words and thoughts.

This is called karma and its impersonal and just acts impersonally... (its a law.)

Just like if you put your hand in the ruel, its perfect universal justice............just stop sinning, thats all you have to do.

All false religious ideology stems from the unsubstantiated idea that we have an element which departs from the body and transcends death, called the soul. Not a Biblical teaching.

My statement remains, your doctrine is both unjust, cruel and without even a semblance of substantiation, to condemn a person for some supposed act in a previous lifetime is to heap stigma and guilt upon the already suffering and is reflective of Hinduistic belief which also has cast thousands of persons into a life of misery and servitude in the case of the caste system, for they too were born untouchable because of some apparent act in a previous life. The doctrine is evil and cruel, unjust and offends the senses.

Christ himself clarified the matter,

(John 9:1-3) . . .Now as he was passing along he saw a man blind from birth.  And his disciples asked him: “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, so that he was born blind?”  Jesus answered: “Neither this man sinned nor his parents, . . .

The idea is false, cruel, unjust, offends the senses, causes stigma and guilt, has no substantiation and has lead thousands of people in to an existence of misery and servitude. Shame on it and those who profess it.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Every condition of life that you find yourself in when born , is a result of past activities in previous lives.....conditions like, man or women, smart or dumb, blind or not blind, black or white, and heterosexual or homosexual and it all has something to do with what you where up to in the previous life.
Karma is the results of deeds, thoughts and words, done in the past.

Tell me, what sort of karma makes a person black?