Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
The passages you cite from "1 John" do not speak to whether or not one who is "born of God" can sin which is the topic of this thread. The passage I cited explicitly states that he cannot. Nothing you posted comes close to refuting this and only sidesteps the issue.[/b]
Correct, in that it is
whosoever in 3:9 and not
whatsoever. My error.
I was thinking of 5:4.
The whosoever who has been begotten of God has received the divine seed. And if he lives in the realm of that divine seed he does not practice sin. The seed cannot sin. And to come under the enfluence of the indwelling divine seed causes man to overcome sin.
You cannot seriously take John to mean that the moment a person becomes a Christian begotten of God it is impossible for him to commit a sin. There is nothing in the surrounding passages of 1 John that suggest John is teaching this way.
John says the Christians are liars if they say they do no have sin
(1 John 1:8)
John says if we confess we shall be cleansed by the blood
(1:9)
John says the Christians have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus the Righteous
(2:1)
John warns the Christians to abide in Him, to abide in what they have heard from the beginning
"Everyone who abides in Him does not sin .."(3:6)
The exhortations is not that they have become instantaneously unable to sin. The exhortations are conditional - if we abide in Him, in this divine seed, we overcome sin.
John says it has not YET appeared what we shall be
(3:2) If the culmination of salvation has occured the moment they were begotten of God then it would ALREADY appear in full maturity. Since they await to see what will be manifested it means they are in the process, they are on the way.
You have no case to twist First John into a teaching of hyper holiness instantaneous maturity.
Furthermore John divides his audience into old men, young men, and children. This obviously indicates different LEVELS of maturity
(2:12-19).
He further address the entire audience as little children indicating the need for GROWTH.
The epistle is filled with warnings and exhortations. The epistle is not an annoucement that all Christians have arrived at sinless perfection in which it is impossible for them to have need of confession of errors.
In the same way, the divine SEED cannot sin. The abiding Christian does not practice sin. The abiding Christian overcomes sin and the world because the one in him is greater than the evil one in the world.
The epistle also warns of not letting practical love flow out. How does eternal life abide in you if you see your brother in need and close your heart? John writes.
This is not an epistle accusing all who say they are disciples to give it up and become atheists. It is not a letter so Christians can endlessly accuse one another of not being perfect.
This epistle in your hands is robbed of its edification power and perverted into tool to invalidate the Christian faith. We see you.