Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
The teachings of Jesus are coherent without placing words in His mouth which you've shown time and again that you are more than willing to do. You do not believe Him, because you have eyes but cannot see. You have ears but cannot hear.

If something doesn't make your point, you distort it (even beyond all recognition) until it does. It is just one of co ...[text shortened]... so long in a world of deceit that it seems natural to you.

The truth will make you free.

KM,

This is for fellowship with you by me.

The doctrine that ToO pushes has been called in Church History "Sinless Perfection". It is held by some branches of Pentacostal Holiness denominations.

They feel that because they have received the Holy Spirit and stopped using lipstick, smoking, drinking, playing cards on Sunday, woman wearing pants, etc, etc, and a number of things they enumerate, they believe that they have achieved sinless perfection.


I do not think ToO is a member of this faction at all. But I point it out to indicate that there is nothing new about his take on First John 3:4:4-9.

Sinless Perfection could not only be taught by some Pentacostal Holiness denominations. It could also be adopted by some cryptic non-Christian groups which deny most of the New Testament to advocate some humanistic alternative.

The intention is probably not to teach that its members have attained to sinless perfection. But rather their take on 1 John 3:4-9 just furnishes them with a handy doctrine to invalidate the orthodox Christian faith.

Debating the errors of Sinless Perfection is like debating against Universalism. There is the danger that the opponent will cause you to appear like you are eager to justify SINNING, which is not the case.

Just like a Universalist who believes all people will eventually be saved can cause the unwatchful Christian to appear that he is EAGER to make the door of salvation closed to all people.

In both cases, the Chrisian has to be careful arguing the wrong thing. Of course God desires all men to be saved. And of course God desires those born of God to overcome all sinning. He is not looking for us to write volumes and volumes trying to make excuses FOR being a sinning Christian.

If you notice, the apostle John uses the word "perfected" a number of times (1 John 4:12; 4:17) . As well Jesus prayed that His followers would be "perfected into one" (John 17:23).

Being perfected is definitely a process to be passed through. Even though the implanted seed of God cannot sin and the one born of God does not practice sin, there is still no avoiding of the process of being "perfected".

Paul says the he and his fellow apostles labored to present everyman "full grown in Christ" [b](See Col. 1:27,28) [/b]

To get people born again was just the beginning of his labors. Then he and his co-workers labored in "admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom that we may present every man full grown in Christ.". There was the need to aid those born of God to grow of God, mature in God, develop in God, and arrive at being full grown. Growth is a process.

It was a trick of the Devil to accuse those in the process of growth that they had to return again and again to the foundation of regeneration. This is like the repeated "altar calls" in some parts of Christiandom. The book of Hebrews warns against not continually being caught in a cycle of trying lay the basic foundation of faith over and over again.

And John coounters this error by teaching the disciples that they and he also himself have the blood of Jesus to always cleanse them and keep them in fellowship with the Father. The Righteous Advocate restores the flow of life and communion of fellowship to the growing ones.

This is really a fascinating subject. And I hope we can continue to talk about First John. It doesn't matter who started the thread or why.