5000 woman from the UK converted to Islam last year

tomtom
You suggested the man was ignorant for essentially asking you to back up your claim and be more specific. I was trying to point out that he rightfully asked because it does go deeper than some swords and blood in the Crusades.

Originally posted by sumydid
tomtom
You suggested the man was ignorant for essentially asking you to back up your claim and be more specific. I was trying to point out that he rightfully asked because it does go deeper than some swords and blood in the Crusades.

No, I asked him if he was ignorant and it doesn't go deeper than some swords and blood in the crusades. You make it deeper. The fact remains that atrocities have been committed in the name of christianity and thus there must be a flaw in christianity.

Originally posted by tomtom232
No, I asked him if he was ignorant and it doesn't go deeper than some swords and blood in the crusades. You make it deeper. The fact remains that atrocities have been committed in the name of christianity and thus there must be a flaw in christianity.

Because you label it a fact, doesn't make it fact. Because something is done in the name of something else doesn't make that something else flawed.

If I kill someone in the name of tomtom232, does that make you flawed?

The Crusaders in most cases were following decrees set forth by the church. In some cases the Crusaders went rogue and plundered on their own.

Originally posted by sumydid
Because you label it a fact, doesn't make it fact. Because something is done in the name of something else doesn't make that something else flawed.

If I kill someone in the name of tomtom232, does that make you flawed?

The Crusaders in most cases were following decrees set forth by the church. In some cases the Crusaders went rogue and plundered on their own.

tomtom232 isn't a doctrine that is followed by you is it? Anyway, a lone person killing in my name is evidence of nothing but if whole nations went to war, for the simple reason that I didn't agree with another nations belief, in my name then yes that would make me flawed.

Why do you argue so for christianity when I said that the teachings of Christ are not flawed? What is so important about a label? It is the labels with their separate doctrines from Christ's teachings that make up christianity; what make christianity flawed; this flaw becomes evident when a massive community commits sins in the name of christianity.

Originally posted by Trev33
I would if i had any Muslim female friends... and i've never come across a non-Muslim woman thinking of converting. Any Muslim woman that i have spoken to where born into Islam and either gave very flaky answers to certain question or just didn't answer.

I hope you are canvassing for answers in places other than just this forum. I haven't seen much in the way of measured analysis of culture in predominantly Muslim countries on this forum. There would be a risk of your preconceptions just being reinforced if RHP was your only source.

Originally posted by tomtom232
tomtom232 isn't a doctrine that is followed by you is it? Anyway, a lone person killing in my name is evidence of nothing but if whole nations went to war, for the simple reason that I didn't agree with another nations belief, in my name then yes that would make me flawed.

Why do you argue so for christianity when I said that the teachings of Christ ar ...[text shortened]... this flaw becomes evident when a massive community commits sins in the name of christianity.

I knew you would go for the "tomtom is not a religion (or doctrine, etc)" which is to completely gloss over my point.

You are very, very wrong. You couldn't be more wrong, in saying that a teaching or doctrine is flawed if people (even many people) do bad things in its name. If they do so AGAINST the doctrine, then clearly the doctrine itself is not responsible. The doctrine of Christ's teachings is to turn the other cheek, love they neighbor as thyself, and certainly not to blindly follow the orders of a human being that simply ranks above you, if that human being is telling you to do something against the doctrine.

Why do I argue so for Christianity? Because Christianity is, the doctrine as you put it, of following the teachings of Christ.

You said that you believe the teachings of Christ are not flawed. Therefore you believe Christianity is not flawed. The PEOPLE that try to follow the teachings of Christ are flawed. Not the doctrine/teachings.

Originally posted by sumydid
I knew you would go for the "tomtom is not a religion (or doctrine, etc)" which is to completely gloss over my point.

You are very, very wrong. You couldn't be more wrong, in saying that a teaching or doctrine is flawed if people (even many people) do bad things in its name. If they do so AGAINST the doctrine, then clearly the doctrine itself is not res ...[text shortened]... e PEOPLE that try to follow the teachings of Christ are flawed. Not the doctrine/teachings.

The "PEOPLE" are christianity. The label is for the "PEOPLE" not for the teachings of Christ; Jesus never called his teachings the "Doctrines of Christianity" or his followers Jehovah's Witness or Southern Baptists or even Christians.

Christianity is obviously flawed and obviously has been even though you twist my words to suit your argument against this fact.
I didn't state that a doctrine is flawed because many people kill in the name of said doctrine, I stated that many people killing in the name of said doctrine is evidence of its flaw which is proven elsewhere.

You can't say something isn't flawed when it causes immoral actions, whether the words are against the actions or not, the words and the interpretations thereof caused those actions.

Again, why the obsession with labeling yourself a christian? Why not seek the truth that is the teachings of Christ regardless of what others label you? I know that if I believed in the Bible I would not call myself a christian.

Originally posted by Trev33
As a cat owner (or as someone who is slave to a cat) i can't imagine ever joining a society with a histroy of mistreating cats, that's basically what the woman who are converting to Islam are doing, i just don't understand it.

Are you Christian? When you became Christian, did you look at the history of Christian society before becoming Christian? If it is demonstrated that the History of Christian society is undesirable will you stop being Christian?

When was the last woman to be stoned to death in the name of Christianity or Judaism?
I am not sure, but it has surely happened and therefore both Christianity and Judaism have a history of mistreating women too. And both include instructions for stoning women in their holy books.

I have, i question where they run to not from where they ran. If you ran out of a burning building would you run into another? Converting to Islam as a woman is not something to irrationally dive into. What if they change their mind again? Does the phrase 'honor killing' mean anything to you?
Some people might feel safer in a religion such as Islam which has stricter rules than typical British society. And no, I don't think a British woman who converted to Islam and then changed her mind is likely to be worried about 'honor killing'. Do you? Can you cite a single example of it ever happening in Britain to a recent convertee?

Maybe they should, world would be a better place.
Yes I am sure it would be. The only religion would be Buddhism.

Originally posted by FMF
I hope you are canvassing for answers in places other than just this forum. I haven't seen much in the way of measured analysis of culture in predominantly Muslim countries on this forum. There would be a risk of your preconceptions just being reinforced if RHP was your only source.

I would be certified retarded if i used the RHP forums as my only source for anything.

Originally posted by Trev33
I would be certified retarded if i used the RHP forums as my only source for anything.

What was it about this forum that made you canvass for analysis here at all, I wonder.

Originally posted by twhitehead

Are you Christian? When you became Christian, did you look at the history of Christian society before becoming Christian? If it is demonstrated that the History of Christian society is undesirable will you stop being Christian?

I'm an atheist, I didn't look into the history of atheism when i decided to become an atheist and i wouldn't change my beliefs if it was demonstrated that the history of atheism was undesirable. When does a crime become 'in the name of a certain religion' rather than just a crime committed by a delusional individual?

I am not sure, but it has surely happened and therefore both Christianity and Judaism have a history of mistreating women too. And both include instructions for stoning women in their holy books

And in how many religions has it been practiced in recently? History is full of blood and tears, in religions and in countries, does it not matter how a religion or society grew and developed in the light of certain mistakes or barbaric practices? Should a British person denounce their nationality because of Britain's role in the slave trade? When do you accept the mistakes and try to make up for them? If 5000 homosexuals had converted to Christianity in the past year i'd be singing the same tune, why join an organization with a recent history of mistreatment of your people and showing no signs of doing anything to improves matters?

Some people might feel safer in a religion such as Islam which has stricter rules than typical British society. And no, I don't think a British woman who converted to Islam and then changed her mind is likely to be worried about 'honor killing'. Do you? Can you cite a single example of it ever happening in Britain to a recent convertee?

I think it's possible, it probably depends why she converts. If, for example she has converted because of a love interest it's entirely possible if she is responsible for the termination of the relationship and denounces Islam.

Not a convertee but if you can kill your daughter you can kill anyone. Maybe they're guilty, maybe they're not, it's just one of many examples i could give you, They're not all innocent.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/09/uk-muslim-parents-arrested-for-honor-killing-of-daughter-who-balked-at-arranged-marriage-to-cousin.html

Yes I am sure it would be. The only religion would be Buddhism.

Is Buddhism technically a religion? No god, no religion?

Originally posted by FMF
What was it about this forum that made you canvass for analysis here at all, I wonder.

Why not? It's not from where we get our information it's what we choose to do with it.

Originally posted by Trev33
Why not? It's not from where we get our information it's what we choose to do with it.

What are you going to do with the information you've got from here?

Originally posted by FMF
What are you going to do with the information you've got from here?

Maybe i should've said 'It's not from where we get our information it's how we choose to process it.

Originally posted by Trev33
I'm an atheist, I didn't look into the history of atheism when i decided to become an atheist and i wouldn't change my beliefs if it was demonstrated that the history of atheism was undesirable.

Then why do you apparently expect other people to consider history before believing something?

And in how many religions has it been practiced in recently?
Why is only recent history relevant?

History is full of blood and tears, in religions and in countries, does it not matter how a religion or society grew and developed in the light of certain mistakes or barbaric practices? Should a British person denounce their nationality because of Britain's role in the slave trade? When do you accept the mistakes and try to make up for them?
You seem to be arguing against yourself. Or are you suggesting that women get stoned to death in Britain?

If 5000 homosexuals had converted to Christianity in the past year i'd be singing the same tune, why join an organization with a recent history of mistreatment of your people and showing no signs of doing anything to improves matters?
It is almost certain that some homosexuals have converted to Christianity in the last year. I am not sure that the exact figure is relevant.

Not a convertee but if you can kill your daughter you can kill anyone.
Nonsense. People are far more likely to kill their daughter than just anyone. That is a sad fact about murder statistics.

Maybe they're guilty, maybe they're not, it's just one of many examples i could give you, They're not all innocent.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/09/uk-muslim-parents-arrested-for-honor-killing-of-daughter-who-balked-at-arranged-marriage-to-cousin.html
Do you realise that this is an entirely different case. Killing your daughter for not obeying you and killing a complete stranger for ditching your religion are totally different things.