1. Subscribersonhouse
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    16 Sep '08 03:522 edits
    Why out of all the possible creation myths going on for thousands of years, every tribe and city of ancient times had their own myth, why did christianity settle on this one? I saw the 6 day creation tale on a papyrus dated about 4000 years old in the Cairo Museum in Egypt and it was thousands of years old then, originally coming from an even older religion called Zoroastrianism if I am not mistaken. So why do christians today firmly believe in this tale that is not even christian?
    I expect answers like 'because its true' or 'its true, it comes from god even if it isn't christian' etc. But does anyone have anything actually rational to say about this?
    I only mention this because it has such a negative impact on modern life in the US and elsewhere because religious right wing whacko's want to force creationist propaganda into science classes and deny evolution to be taught if they can, it is an extremely dividing political religious issue and nobody even thinks about the actual origin of this myth, just trying to foist a third hand tale unto us in the 21st century where we have ample evidence of no such thing but just the dogged belief in it by a vocal minority who will push this thing into american life to the detriment of actual science in the classrom and with this kind of negativity, how can the US maintain its premier position as the top scientific power of the world? We are being left behind and a lot of it falls squarely on the shoulders of these religious right wing wack jobs.
  2. Joined
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    16 Sep '08 04:49
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Why out of all the possible creation myths going on for thousands of years, every tribe and city of ancient times had their own myth, why did christianity settle on this one? I saw the 6 day creation tale on a papyrus dated about 4000 years old in the Cairo Museum in Egypt and it was thousands of years old then, originally coming from an even older religion ...[text shortened]... d and a lot of it falls squarely on the shoulders of these religious right wing wack jobs.
    Most Christians do not accept a literal interpretation of the creation story. That you give no acknowledgement of this, and treat Christians as totally homogeneous, shows much about your own rationality.
  3. weedhopper
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    16 Sep '08 05:49
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    Most Christians do not accept a literal interpretation of the creation story. That you give no acknowledgement of this, and treat Christians as totally homogeneous, shows much about your own rationality.
    I've tried pointing that out many times Conrau. We are not a bunch of lemmings, all being led by one rigid doctrine to the precipice. It's the usual stereotyping of us. Christians can be stereotyped and mocked and be victims of intolerance---but no other group! God forbid..đŸ˜”
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    16 Sep '08 05:56
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Why out of all the possible creation myths going on for thousands of years, every tribe and city of ancient times had their own myth, why did christianity settle on this one? I saw the 6 day creation tale on a papyrus dated about 4000 years old in the Cairo Museum in Egypt and it was thousands of years old then, originally coming from an even older religion ...[text shortened]... istaken. So why do christians today firmly believe in this tale that is not even christian?...
    The simple answer here is that the very early Christians were not Christians at all! They were a sect of Judaism. Thus, the writings of the Old Testament were sacred writing to this new sect of Jews, same as the other Jews of that time and place.
  5. Cape Town
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    16 Sep '08 07:10
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Why out of all the possible creation myths going on for thousands of years, every tribe and city of ancient times had their own myth, why did christianity settle on this one? I saw the 6 day creation tale on a papyrus dated about 4000 years old in the Cairo Museum in Egypt and it was thousands of years old then, originally coming from an even older religion ...[text shortened]... it isn't christian' etc. But does anyone have anything actually rational to say about this?
    You really need to think your rants through a little more carefully.
    1. Surely even you know enough history to know that everything in the Old Testament predates Christianity?
    2. Also, any stories in the Old Testament referring to times before God made a covenant with Abraham necessarily predate Judaism.
    3. Those Christians who take the creation story literally obviously have a fool proof answer: it cant predate Adam can it?
    4. The majority of Christians however do not take the story literally, and at least some accept that it was incorporated into Judaism from prior religions/myths (my Christian parents told me that was the case).
    5. "Because it comes from God" is also a perfectly good excuse - whatever mechanism was used.
    6. How do you (or anyone else) know that the tale was thousands of years old before it was written on a papyrus in Cairo? Is there a prior written record? I suspect you are wrong on that count.

    I only mention this because it has such a negative impact on modern life in the US and elsewhere because religious right wing whacko's want to force creationist propaganda into science classes and deny evolution to be taught if they can, it is an extremely dividing political religious issue and nobody even thinks about the actual origin of this myth, just trying to foist a third hand tale unto us in the 21st century where we have ample evidence of no such thing but just the dogged belief in it by a vocal minority who will push this thing into american life to the detriment of actual science in the classrom and with this kind of negativity, how can the US maintain its premier position as the top scientific power of the world? We are being left behind and a lot of it falls squarely on the shoulders of these religious right wing wack jobs.
    Well it starts with everyone making an effort to think clearly. That starts with you. If you post a whole lot of inaccurate incorrect statements then how are you different from them? I admit that you are not pushing your ideas in the science classroom (only the science forum perhaps?).
    I must note that I fully agree with your actual complaint - there are far too many people willing to push their nonsensical ideas on others for the purposes of a religious agenda. The same applies in the Global warming scene where there are far to many people willing to make up or support lies because they fear that admitting the truth would require them to change their lifestyle.
    Humans have an amazing capacity for denial, avoidance and blocking out unsavory truths. Nowhere is this syndrome more in evidence than with respect to AIDS. I have met university graduates (with science related degrees) who deny the existence of AIDS because they fear they might have it.
  6. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    16 Sep '08 07:45
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    You really need to think your rants through a little more carefully.
    Sage advice!

    I'd like to read this story.
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    16 Sep '08 11:58
    My opinion is this:

    There is no first religion, only early religion. When we evolved from earlier apperances to what we are today, at approx 50 000 years ago, we thought deeply of the religious questions - what is beyond death, why is nature evil and/or good, etc. Animism, shamanism and such was the religions at hand. Spirits ruled, gods. Only long time later the first seed of theism arised.

    And this is only my opinion.
  8. Subscribersonhouse
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    16 Sep '08 13:341 edit
    Originally posted by Badwater
    The simple answer here is that the very early Christians were not Christians at all! They were a sect of Judaism. Thus, the writings of the Old Testament were sacred writing to this new sect of Jews, same as the other Jews of that time and place.
    That is a valid point. But the creation story still predates even the OT by thousands of years so they just grabbed a tale they liked and made it their own. It is the use as a political weapon in the classroom that I object to, the US now being the laughing stock of the other scientifically advanced societies over this and forcing creationism to be taught in science class cannot but have negative effects on the children confused enough just being children, another negative in their brief lives. That's why I characterize those cretins pushing all this as wacko jobs. I know the majority of christians don't agree with their actions in the midwest states but enough do, a rather high percentage, enough to have a negative effect on our educational system, already one of the worse in the advanced societies of the world, why make it even more so with wack jobs interfering?
    If they confined their tales to the church, I would be the last person on earth to object, it's when they foist it on schools I get more than a little bit riled up.
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    16 Sep '08 14:26
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Why out of all the possible creation myths going on for thousands of years, every tribe and city of ancient times had their own myth, why did christianity settle on this one? I saw the 6 day creation tale on a papyrus dated about 4000 years old in the Cairo Museum in Egypt and it was thousands of years old then, originally coming from an even older religion ...[text shortened]... d and a lot of it falls squarely on the shoulders of these religious right wing wack jobs.
    The entire premise of this criticism is kind of naive.

    So if there were various embellishments of a creation account that predate the Christian Gospel , that proves exactly what ?

    So if Moses wrote down something thousands of years ago which had similiar characteristics to other pre-Moses accounts, that's suppose to prove that Moses played copycat?

    Precisely the opposite could be argued. That is that there was in the collective memory of many cultures somewhat similar or embellished traditions.

    The one valid account could have been locally modified from culture to culture to adjust for local needs. Many similar legends do not prove that Genesis copied one of them.
  10. Standard memberPalynka
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    16 Sep '08 15:14
    "It is the affair of the natural sciences to explain how the tree of life in particular continues to grow and how new branches shoot out from it. This is not a matter for faith."

    - excerpt from Ratzinger, In the Beginning
  11. Standard memberPalynka
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    16 Sep '08 15:191 edit
    I just said how, gradually, in confronting its pagan environment and its own heart, the people of Israel experienced what "creation" was. Implicit here is the fact that the classic creation account is not the only creation text of sacred Scripture. Immediately after it there follows another one, composed earlier and containing other imagery. In the Psalms there are still others, and there the movement to clarify the faith concerning creation is carried further: In its confrontation with Hellenistic civilization, Wisdom literature reworks the theme without sticking to the old images such as the seven days. Thus we can see how the Bible itself constantly readapts its images to a continually developing way of thinking, how it changes time and again in order to bear witness, time and again, to the one thing that has come to it, in truth, from God's Word, which is the message of his creating act. In the Bible itself the images are free and they correct themselves ongoingly. In this way they show, by means of a gradual and interactive process, that they are only images, which reveal something deeper and greater.

    - excerpt from Ratzinger, In the Beginning
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    16 Sep '08 19:33
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    That is a valid point. But the creation story still predates even the OT by thousands of years so they just grabbed a tale they liked and made it their own. It is the use as a political weapon in the classroom that I object to, the US now being the laughing stock of the other scientifically advanced societies over this and forcing creationism to be taught i ...[text shortened]... on earth to object, it's when they foist it on schools I get more than a little bit riled up.
    Well, I get riled up also. Religious teaching is for church or synagogue; it has no place in the public school system. Public school teachers are not qualified to be teaching theology and should not even try. Creationism is a theological concept, so leave it for church and out of the public schools.

    Public schooling has far bigger issues that it needs to be dealing with - why throw this subject in the curriculum?
  13. Cape Town
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    17 Sep '08 09:42
    Originally posted by jaywill
    So if Moses wrote down something thousands of years ago which had similiar characteristics to other pre-Moses accounts, that's suppose to prove that Moses played copycat?
    You don't actually think that Moses wrote Genesis? Sometimes you scare me.
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    17 Sep '08 10:12
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    You don't actually think that Moses wrote Genesis? Sometimes you scare me.
    that is the general rumor, that moses wrote the first 4-5 books.

    more reasonable to believe there were a bunch of authors.

    for fundamentalists is easier to claim one was under divine guidance rather than 20, i guess
  15. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    17 Sep '08 10:37
    Originally posted by Palynka
    I just said how, gradually, in confronting its pagan environment and its own heart, the people of Israel experienced what "creation" was. Implicit here is the fact that[b] the classic creation account is not the only creation text of sacred Scripture. Immediately after it there follows another one, composed earlier and containing other imagery. In the ...[text shortened]... which reveal something deeper and greater.

    - excerpt from Ratzinger, In the Beginning[/b]
    Jebus, don't tell me I have to read Ratzinger 🙂
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