27 Dec 11
1 edit
1. Why because i do not accept that Christ is God almighty, I am the Antichrist
2. If you are once saved always saved why did Jesus speak of the need of
endurance, Paul of falling away from the faith.
3.Why are you trying to portray something that is not explicit in the text of Isaiah
9:6?
27 Dec 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSince jaywill has not answered this yet, I would like to restated what
1. Why because i do not accept that Christ is God almighty, I am the Antichrist
2. If you are once saved always saved why did Jesus speak of the need of
endurance, Paul of falling away from the faith.
3.Why are you trying to portray something that is not explicit in the text of Isaiah
9:6?
I have said before on "once saved always saved". I am not trying to
speak for jaywill for he may have a different idea about this.
I was raised in a Baptist Church where "Once saved always saved"
was an important saying of that church. I believe it is true that once
a person has been saved by Jesus he can not be unsaved. However,
some churches tend to present salvation as getting baptized and
becoming a member of the church. But it is clear from scripture
that one must endure to the end with their faith and then they will
be saved by Jesus.
27 Dec 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieRobbie, prepare to read a "long post" because I refuse to answer this in 25 words or less.
1. Why because i do not accept that Christ is God almighty, I am the Antichrist
2. If you are once saved always saved why did Jesus speak of the need of
endurance, Paul of falling away from the faith.
3.Why are you trying to portray something that is not explicit in the text of Isaiah
9:6?
1. Why because i do not accept that Christ is God almighty, I am the Antichrist
I didn't say that you were the Antichrist. Quote me is you disagree.
I probably wrote that you display the spirit of antichrist. I am positive that the Russellite teaching of Jehovah's Witness is a teaching of the spirit of antichrist.
Now this expression did not originate with me but with the Apostle John
"In this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit which confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, And every spirit which does not confess Jesis is not of God; and this is the [spirit] of antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming and now is already in the world." (1 John 4:2,3)
IF YOUR SHORT ATTENTION SPAN HAS MADE YOU TIRED OF READING ALREADY THAN I CANNOT HELP YOU.
The phrase "the [spirit] of antichrist" is from the Apostle John. And contrary to what you complained, to say someone is teaching or has the spirit of antichrist is not exactly the same as saying he IS the Antichrist.
NOW I AM NOT FINISHED YET. IF YOU ARE TIRED OF READING, YOU WON'T GET A COMPLETE EXPLANATION AT THIS POINT.
Briefly, John says "From this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of deception" (v. 6) . Therefore the "spirit of antichrist" has to do with DECEPTION in teaching the New Testament truth.
In principle DENYING ANY aspect of the Person of Christ in what He is, can be a teaching of the spirit of antichrist. I repeat, to deny ANY aspect of the full New Testament revelation of what and who Christ IS - is in the spirit of antichrist in principle.
If you teach the Gospel and deny that Jesus is God incarnate - that is a deception and in the spirit of antichrist.
If you teach the Gospel and deny that Jesus is a MAN - that also is a deception and in the spirit of antichrist.
If you teach the Gospel and deny that the Lord is the Spirit (2 Cor. 3:17) that TOO is a deception and in the spirit of antichrist.
The spirit of antichrist teaching is not just of ONE kind. It could be of different kinds. The common thread is that the teaching DECEIVES by denying SOME aspect of the full Person of Christ in what He is.
In your case your deceptive teaching that Christ is not God become man is definitely in the spirit of antichrist. You deny an important component of the full revelation of the Person of Christ.
The spirit of antichrist is not of only ONE kind. It is not only of those who deny that Jesus has come in the flesh, as the ancient Gnostics taught. It could be of another kind of denial of WHO and WHAT Christ is in preaching what Paul called "another Jesus".
Your # 2 question I will reply to in the next post.
27 Dec 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieDo I see the words of Dasa here...?
jaywill due to his lack of both honesty and integrity could not bring himself to answer
the question, ... he has
neither the decency nor the honesty to admit it and remains theretofore a religious
fraud! despite his affections of piety!
27 Dec 11
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillI didn't say that you were the Antichrist, - jaywill
Robbie, prepare to read a "long post" because I refuse to answer this in 25 words or less.
1. Why because i do not accept that Christ is God almighty, I am the Antichrist
I didn't say that you were the Antichrist. Quote me is you disagree.
I probably wrote that you display the [b] spirit of antichrist. I am positive that "another Jesus".
Your # 2 question I will reply to in the next post.[/b]
He had no spirit of antichrist which motivates your opposition to the Person of Christ. - jaywill
I both acknowledge that Christ came and i confess that he is the chief agent of
salvation, why are you therefore stating that i am the spirit of Antichrist. you are
still trying to portray elements that are not explicit in the Biblical text, 'denying any
aspect', is not in the text Jaywill, you have made it up, you are portraying elements
not explicit in the biblical text, why are you doing it?
All i have stated is that I find no Biblical evidence that Christ is Almighty God,
because its not stated explicitly in the text. the text does not state that Christ is God
incarnate, AGAIN you are trying to portray something that is not explicit in the text,
why are you doing it?
You did it with the text of Isaiah and you are now attempting it here also, why
Jaywill? I have not denied that Jesus was a man, i have not denied that Christ is a
life giving spirit either (although even the term spirit is quite ambiguous), so i will
ask you Why are you trying to portray something that is not in the Biblical text
Jaywill, if you admit that you are biased, i will accept it
27 Dec 11
2. If you are once saved always saved why did Jesus speak of the need of
endurance, Paul of falling away from the faith.
First, a little bit more about the spirit of antichrist.
Someone can be a Christian and STILL display a teaching which is in principle in the spirit of antichrist.
It is NOT that only an unsaved person can teach a deception or something in the spirit of antichrist.
For example - I have met many evangelical Christians who are very ealous to maintain that Jesus Christ is God the Creator. And I AGREE with them that Jesus Christ is God the CREATOR. However, in their zeal they may try to say that because Christ is God the Creator He is not a creature.
They have a correct zeal to maintain that the Word was God. But they go too far to say that the WORD, becoming flesh, is not a creature. This denying that God was incarnated by being clothed in His creation - becoming flesh, taking on a human body should NOT be denied.
This denial of Christ as also a created MAN is in principle in the spirit of antichrist. Why? It is in the spirit of antichrist because it denies SOME aspect of the FULL revelation of Who Christ is in the Bible.
The paradox we simply have to live with. We cannot deny one side of the truth in order to uphold the other. BOTH aspects have to be maintained. And Christ is God the CREATOR as well as the CREATED Man. IF God became a man than He became a part of the creation of God.
So teaching in the spirit of antichrist is not identical with NOT being saved or not being a Christian.
I do not believe I have said you are not saved or are not a Christian. Some people get saved IN SPITE of being in a cult like the JWs.
What I DID say many times to you was that you should consider WHY you don't seem to have the assurance of your salvation.
Saying that you do not seem to have the assurance of salvation is not insisting that you are not saved. BUT it MAY be an indication that you have not been regenerated and therefore have not be born again and are not a Christian disciple.
Look again what the Apostle John wrote:
"You are of God, little chuldren; and you have opvercome them [ the false teachers with a spirit of antichrist ] because because greater is He who is in you that he who is in the world." (1 John 3:4)
WAKE UP. KEEP READING. THIS IS IMPORTANT!
John said "HE WHO IS IN YOU" But you, Robbie, because of your JW indoctrination consider it foolish to speak of Christ or God INDWELLING the believer.
But John talks all about the God who is in the believers, the Christ who is IN the believers, the Spirit who is IN the believers. So rather than consider me shutting you out, you should consider what kind of New Testament teaching you are receiving.
I stop this post here.
27 Dec 11
Originally posted by jaywillall i want to know is why you are portraying elements that are not explicit in the
2. If you are once saved always saved why did Jesus speak of the need of
endurance, Paul of falling away from the faith.
First, a little bit more about the spirit of antichrist.
Someone can be a Christian and STILL display a teaching which is in principle in the spirit of antichrist.
It is NOT that only an unsaved person can ...[text shortened]... consider what kind of New Testament teaching you are receiving.
I stop this post here.
Biblical text.
27 Dec 11
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I didn't say that you were the Antichrist, - jaywill
He had no spirit of antichrist which motivates your opposition to the Person of Christ. - jaywill
I both acknowledge that Christ came and i confess that he is the chief agent of
salvation, why are you therefore stating that i am the spirit of Antichrist. you are
still trying to portray e hat is not in the Biblical text
Jaywill, if you admit that you are biased, i will accept it
I didn't say that you were the Antichrist, - jaywill
He had no spirit of antichrist which motivates your opposition to the Person of Christ. - jaywill
Thankyou for the quote. And thankyou for verifying that I did not call you THE [capital A] Antichrist. Why would I do that ?
I stand by my belief that JW's Christology is in the spirit of the antichrist.
I put a small a on "antichrist" because John says MANY antichrists have gone out into the world. So there is THE final Antichrist, and there are many antichrists. And there are many false teachers teaching something in the spirit of the antichrist.
"Young children, it is the last hour; and even as you heard that antichriwst is coming, even now many antichrists have come; whereby we know that it is the last hour." (1 John 2:18)
" ... MANY ANTICHRISTS have come ..." (my emphasis)
"many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1)
" ... you have overcome THEM ..." (v.4)
I both acknowledge that Christ came and i confess that he is the chief agent of
salvation, why are you therefore stating that i am the spirit of Antichrist.
What about the PLEDGE of the Holy Spirit - "He who is in you ..." ?
If you come to me attempting to teach "another Jesus" and you fight against Christ being God or against the indwelling He WHO IS IN YOU of the Holy Spirit, you will not be able to deceive me.
Because "From this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of deception" (v.6) And the one who is in me is greater than the one who is in the world - the antichrist and his/ their deceptive teachings.
"You are of God, little children; and you have overcome them because GREATER is He who is in you than he how is in the world." (v.4)
I have written here 50 times "the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit" . We who are of God have overcome the deception because of the anointing, because of the garuantee, because of the PLEDGE of the Holy Spirit - the HE who dwells in us.
Jehovah's Witness, You cannot deceive me. Greater is He who is in me than he who is the spirit of antichrist in the world. And Jesus said that we disciples would be HIS witnesses -
" But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you shall be My WITNESSES both in Herusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and unto the uttermost parts of the earth."
The Godman Jesus Christ said that we disciples shall be HIS witnesses ... "You shall be MY WITNESSES"
You make speak flattering words about Jesus being the "agent" of salvation. But the entire foundational BASIS of Russell's cult is to fight against Christ as the God incarnate as our Redeemer, Savior, and Lord.
At the rock bottom of your Watchtower doctrine is a Satanic war against the incarnation of God in Christ.
This post stops here.
27 Dec 11
Originally posted by jaywillAt the rock bottom of your Watchtower doctrine is a Satanic war against theI didn't say that you were the Antichrist, - jaywill
He had no spirit of antichrist which motivates your opposition to the Person of Christ. - jaywill
Thankyou for the quote. And thankyou for verifying that I did not call you THE [capital A] Antichrist. Why would I do that ?
I stand by my belief that JW's Christology is in t ...[text shortened]... ainst the incarnation of God in Christ.
This post stops here.
incarnation of God in Christ
yes indeed, now you will answer the question,
why are you portraying elements that are not explicit in the biblical text.
27 Dec 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieDid not God provide you with a brain for you to reason with? Yes. Why don't
At the rock bottom of your Watchtower doctrine is a Satanic war against the
incarnation of God in Christ
yes indeed, now you will answer the question,
why are you portraying elements that are not explicit in the biblical text.
you use it to reason out what is true from what is written rather than deny
the truth because of a lack of an explicit statement that you wish to see?
The text says "Mighty God" along with "Everlasting Father" by any ones
reason this should indicate this child to be incarnated is the only true God.
The fact that he is called many things and all of them are not included here
should not be a reason for you to deny the truth of the scriptures. You
know that God has many names that He is called and Isaiah only mentions
a few here. The fact that the Mighty God and Everlasting Father is not
also called Almighty does not mean God is not "almighty" does it?
27 Dec 11
Originally posted by RJHindswhy are you portraying elements that are not explicit in the biblical text.
Did not God provide you with a brain for you to reason with? Yes. Why don't
you use it to reason out what is true from what is written rather than deny
the truth because of a lack of an explicit statement that you wish to see?
The text says "Mighty God" along with "Everlasting Father" by any ones
reason this should indicate this child to be incarnated i ...[text shortened]... rlasting Father is not
also called Almighty does not mean God is not "almighty" does it?
27 Dec 11
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI don't know if your "yes indeed" means your agreement.
At the rock bottom of your Watchtower doctrine is a Satanic war against the
incarnation of God in Christ
yes indeed, now you will answer the question,
why are you portraying elements that are not explicit in the biblical text.
I really don't think anything more needs to be said by me on Isaiah 9:6.
Jehovah is called "Mighty God".
Any teaching that there is one God - "the Almighty" and another bunch of gods or another God "the Mighty God" is a heresy.
"I am Jehovah and there is no one else; Besides Me there is no God." (Isaiah 45:5)
Twisting, figeting, shuffling, and moving the goal post around from here to there, and imagining points about an "Almighty God" who is OTHER than "the Mighty God" is ...
FUTILE.
The prophet Jacob said that God Almighty appeared to him. He was refering to his experience in Genesis 28:19 comp. 35:6.
"And Jacob said to Joseph, The All-sufficient God appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan and blessed me." (Genesis 48:3)
That is the Hebrew El Shaddai as in Gen 17 -
"And when Abram was ninety-nine years old, Jehovah appeared to Abram and said to him, I am the All-sufficient God; walk before me and be perfect." (Gen 17:1)
Some English versions would have Almighty God or God Almighty. If you have some basis of saying that Jehovah is called mighty God but is NOT the Mighty God then with the same logic you could teach that Jehovah called El Shaddai , the Almighty, but is NOT the Almighty.
There is no basis for saying that the Mighty God in Isaiah 9:6 is not Jehovah. And that Mighty God, believe it or not, spent 9 months in the womb of a woman and was BORN unto us.
There are two tracks in that prophecy. The Mighty God is the child. And the Eternal Father is the son.
One track is the Mighty God as the name of the born child.
The other track is the Eternal Father as the name of the given son.
This is Wonderful. This is full of wonder. This is complete in wonderment.
If you are born of God you should LEAVE the Jehovah's Witnesses because they cannot stand to conform to the truth of the word of God. That is why they have deceived so many to think that Jehovah is the Almighty God but there is another Mighty God, another god besides Jehovah.
But let us come faithfully back to the Scripture - "I am Jehovah and there is no one else; Besides Me there is no God." (Isaiah 45:5)
Besides Jehovah who is the All-sufficient God, El Shaddai, the Almighty AND who is also "the Mighty God" (Deut. 10:17; Psalm 50:1; Psalm 24:8; ) there is no God.
27 Dec 11
Originally posted by jaywillPlease answer the question, why are you portraying elements that are not explicit in the biblical text.
I don't know if your "yes indeed" means your agreement.
I really don't think anything more needs to be said by me on [b]Isaiah 9:6.
Jehovah is called "Mighty God".
Any teaching that there is one God - "the Almighty" and another bunch of gods or another God "the Mighty God" is a heresy.
"I am Jehovah and the ...[text shortened]... ighty God" (Deut. 10:17; Psalm 50:1; Psalm 24:8; ) there is no God.[/b]