@sonship: The trinity doctrine and salvation

Originally posted by Suzianne
The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. If you deny this, then I do not see how you can say you believe in the deity of Jesus. If you do not deny this, then yes, you believe in the Trinity. End of story.

Please also see my post to Fetchmyjunk above.

I am not seeking your understanding about how I accept the deity of Christ, I am seeking your clarification of the consequences of me rejecting what you believe i.e. the trinity doctrine.

Originally posted by divegeester
Sonship you play up the trinity in this forum and I have a question for you on it which you have been dodging for months.

If a Christian/person rejects your version of the trinity teaching entirely, does that mean that they are precluded from having the spirit of Christ and if so, does that mean therefore, that they are not saved?

This is a critical and pivotal doctrinal question regarding what you believe.

D, good question but you know the answer already, don't you?
The trinity is not a Bible teaching so it is actually a deterrent to
salvation.

Originally posted by whodey
Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved

So what do you reckon is soooooo important about declaring Jesus Lord?

More importantly, what does declaring Jesus Lord mean to you?

Even more important, do you understand the difference between Lord and God?

Originally posted by whodey
Saying that Jesus is "Lord" is suggestive to most that this refers to the Trinity. Who else in the Bible is referred to as Lord and why is it so important regarding salvation according to Paul?

Moreover, the verse indicates what is required to have the spirit of God living in you.

Jehovah God is referred to as LORD in the Bible by superstitious translators of the Bible. They did not want to misuse God's Name.
Bible scholars admit that this has caused much confusion including the conclusion by some that Jesus is God. (see Divine Name King James Bible)
(Philippians 2:5, 6) Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.
Jesus did not count himself as equal to God.
He avoided making the mistake that Satan made.
Satan (or Lucifer) thought he was equal to God and even challenged Jehovah.
His big mistake.
Jesus never claimed to be God or equal to God.
He always claimed to be God's son and taught his followers the same.
(Matthew 16:15-17) He said to them: “You, though, who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 In response Jesus said to him: “Happy you are, Simon son of Joʹnah, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father in the heavens did.

John 1:1 says that Jesus was with God in the beginning and that Jesus is God.

Originally posted by Eladar
John 1:1 says that Jesus was with God in the beginning and that Jesus is God.

Jesus is god because Jehovah gave him god-like qualities when He made Jesus as an angel.
Jesus in John 1:1 is not "ho theos", The Most High God.
(Psalm 83:18) May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You .....ALONE..... are the Most High over all the earth.

Originally posted by roigam
Jesus is god because Jehovah gave him god-like qualities when He made Jesus as an angel.
Jesus in John 1:1 is not "ho theos", The Most High God.
(Psalm 83:18) May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You .....ALONE..... are the Most High over all the earth.

Maybe you can point me to the scripture that says God made the angel Jesus.

Originally posted by Eladar
Maybe you can point me to the scripture that says God made the angel Jesus.

John 1:1-3

If nothing was made without Jesus, then how could Jesus be made? Jesus had to exist before anything was made.

Originally posted by roigam
D, good question but you know the answer already, don't you?
The trinity is not a Bible teaching so it is actually a deterrent to
salvation.

No I don't "know" the answer roigam.

I have my own belief which is based on these two fundamental truths, for me: 1) The Lord is ONE (entity), 2) The deity of Christ. Not being able to fully understand this mystery is not a problem for me and I don't need to accept the error of the THREE (entities)-in-ONE trinity in order to placate my interest.

what I can tell you is that I don't hold to the belief that a cognitive position, "a belief" if you like or being a "member" of something (such as your church), can on it's own, preclude or permit, someone from the Kingdom of God. I believe that holding this type of thought is cultism.

Originally posted by Eladar
John 1:1 says that Jesus was with God in the beginning and that Jesus is God.

so?

Guys and gals, the point I'm raising in this thread is about the roots of cultism - whereby sects and sectarianism are driven from the belief that the holder has some level of either deeper or new truth (JWs for example) which makes them special, or, they wrongly hold that an existing truth is a determinant for a "life and death" consequence.

Holding that a person MUST believe in the "trinity doctrine" in order to be given salvation, is one of these strange beliefs that leads to sectarianism and eventually cultism. My OP is directed at sonship because I think he does believe this and he won't answer because he kind of agrees with the cultish bit.

It is irrespective whether or not the teaching/doctrine is indeed error - it is absolutely NOT essential for salvation and to try to say it is, is gross error in my opinion.

Originally posted by Eladar
John 1:1-3

If nothing was made without Jesus, then how could Jesus be made? Jesus had to exist before anything was made.

So Jesus can't be a created being.

Originally posted by Eladar
So Jesus can't be a created being.

Not sure if you are talking to me Eladar, but the mystery here is of "God in Christ" and yet Jesus was born in the flesh. Also. in him (Jesus) dwelt the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form.

Originally posted by divegeester
Not sure if you are talking to me Eladar, but the mystery here is of "God in Christ" and yet Jesus was born in the flesh. Also. in him (Jesus) dwelt the [b]fullness of the Godhead in bodily form.[/b]

So why do you reject the divinity of the Holy Spirit?

Originally posted by divegeester
Not sure if you are talking to me Eladar, but the mystery here is of "God in Christ" and yet Jesus was born in the flesh. Also. in him (Jesus) dwelt the [b]fullness of the Godhead in bodily form.[/b]

I wasn't. I was responding to the idea that Jesus was an angel that was given God status.

In other words, Jesus is just what Satan wanted to be.