1. Joined
    04 Feb '05
    Moves
    29132
    28 Nov '08 11:37
    Hey we haven't had one in a while, let's debate it again.

    Genesis 6:
    11 God saw that the earth was corrupt and full of lawlessness.
    12 God looked at the earth: it was corrupt, for corrupt were the ways of all living things on earth.
    13 God said to Noah, 'I have decided that the end has come for all living things, for the earth is full of lawlessness because of human beings. So I am now about to destroy them and the earth.
    14 Make yourself an ark out of resinous wood. Make it of reeds and caulk it with pitch inside and out.
    15 This is how to make it: the length of the ark is to be three hundred cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits.
    16 Make a roof to the ark, building it up to a cubit higher. Put the entrance in the side of the ark, which is to be made with lower, second and third decks.
    17 'For my part I am going to send the flood, the waters, on earth, to destroy all living things having the breath of life under heaven; everything on earth is to perish.
    18 But with you I shall establish my covenant and you will go aboard the ark, yourself, your sons, your wife, and your sons' wives along with you.
    19 From all living creatures, from all living things, you must take two of each kind aboard the ark, to save their lives with yours; they must be a male and a female.
    20 Of every species of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that creeps along the ground, two must go with you so that their lives may be saved.
    21 For your part, provide yourself with eatables of all kinds, and lay in a store of them, to serve as food for yourself and them.'
  2. Joined
    11 Nov '05
    Moves
    43938
    28 Nov '08 12:10
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    Hey we haven't had one in a while, let's debate it again.

    Genesis 6:
    11 God saw that the earth was corrupt and full of lawlessness.
    12 God looked at the earth: it was corrupt, for corrupt were the ways of all living things on earth.
    13 God said to Noah, 'I have decided that the end has come for all living things, for the earth is full of lawlessness b ...[text shortened]... atables of all kinds, and lay in a store of them, to serve as food for yourself and them.'
    A good old beduin story, told at the camp fires when they had nothing else to do. Quite an entertaining story. 🙂

    Doesn't explain the existance of kangurus though...
  3. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    28 Nov '08 12:14
    1. Did God violate the laws of physics when he created the flood? If so, then why do so many people try to fit it into the laws of physics and prove that it was possible within those laws? If he produced the water via a miracle he could have taken it away and even cleared up any traces of the whole event if he so chose.
    If it was not a miracle then how does God arrange such events? Does he plan them from the beginning of the universe and make the laws of physics in such a way that such events will happen as and when planned? Or does he have an ongoing influence on the universe and to why should we not declare such an influence miraculous? And what are the limits of those influences?

    2. Did Noah have two pairs of every species of animal / bird that exists today or only representatives of each genus or other category larger than species?
    Roughly how long ago did this event take place?
    How did the animals / birds all get back to their proper places on the earth?

    3. Did Noah originally come from New Zealand? I mean he was on the open ocean for quite a long time and the land forms would have changed considerably after such a large flood, he could have come from anywhere even if he eventually made landfall in the middle east.

    4. How did plants and freshwater fish survive?

    5. Do all human beings descend from Noah and family? If so, are we totally wrong in our estimates regarding genetic variation and time lines etc? Is there a discernible pattern in the genetics of all animals and bird that points to a single date (single pair).

    6. How did all the animals deal with the initial problem of lack of genetic variation? Where the animals all perfect then? Or did they (blasphemy) have beneficial mutations at some point?
  4. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    28 Nov '08 12:15
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    A good old beduin story, told at the camp fires when they had nothing else to do. Quite an entertaining story. 🙂
    Its a lot older than the Bedouins and comes from further north.
  5. Standard memberPalynka
    Upward Spiral
    Halfway
    Joined
    02 Aug '04
    Moves
    8702
    28 Nov '08 12:18
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Its a lot older than the Bedouins and comes from further north.
    How old are the Bedouins?
  6. Standard memberPalynka
    Upward Spiral
    Halfway
    Joined
    02 Aug '04
    Moves
    8702
    28 Nov '08 12:19
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    1. Did God violate the laws of physics when he created the flood? If so, then why do so many people try to fit it into the laws of physics and prove that it was possible within those laws? If he produced the water via a miracle he could have taken it away and even cleared up any traces of the whole event if he so chose.
    If it was not a miracle then how d ...[text shortened]... e the animals all perfect then? Or did they (blasphemy) have beneficial mutations at some point?
    Who are you addressing this to?
  7. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    28 Nov '08 12:21
    Kelly mentions in another thread that dinosaurs made it on the ark.
    Is there any reason to believe this? Has any evidence been unearthed of post flood dinosaurs? Did any species die out before the flood or because of the flood?
  8. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    28 Nov '08 12:21
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Who are you addressing this to?
    Anyone who's interested.
  9. Standard memberPalynka
    Upward Spiral
    Halfway
    Joined
    02 Aug '04
    Moves
    8702
    28 Nov '08 12:22
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Kelly mentions in another thread that dinosaurs made it on the ark.
    Is there any reason to believe this? Has any evidence been unearthed of post flood dinosaurs? Did any species die out before the flood or because of the flood?
    Seriously, anyone who believes in a literal account of the flood needs to have his head examined. But I admire your patience. 😀
  10. Standard memberPalynka
    Upward Spiral
    Halfway
    Joined
    02 Aug '04
    Moves
    8702
    28 Nov '08 12:25
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Anyone who's interested.
    I'm interested, but if I answer all your questions by saying it's an allegory would you still be interested?

    The flood myth is one of the oldest myths known to man and it is still present in some major religions today. That alone makes it an extraordinarily interesting case.
  11. Joined
    04 Feb '05
    Moves
    29132
    28 Nov '08 12:26
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    A good old beduin story, told at the camp fires when they had nothing else to do. Quite an entertaining story. 🙂

    Doesn't explain the existance of kangurus though...
    i thought so too. but then i saw that the bible doesn't specify. god tells noah
    "19 From all living creatures, from all living things, you must take two of each kind aboard the ark, to save their lives with yours; they must be a male and a female.
    20 Of every species of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that creeps along the ground, two must go with you so that their lives may be saved. "

    so the story is foolproof, this includes all the insects and the kangaroos who came all the way from australia(unless the flood people claim the continents were together and drifted apart because of the flood as kelly might have implied in another thread) and also includes the dinosaurs(although some say god wiped them before the flood)
  12. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    28 Nov '08 12:27
    Originally posted by Palynka
    How old are the Bedouins?
    I'm not sure and I am open to correction but I doubt that they are as old as the Noah story.
  13. Joined
    04 Feb '05
    Moves
    29132
    28 Nov '08 12:28
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Kelly mentions in another thread that dinosaurs made it on the ark.
    Is there any reason to believe this? Has any evidence been unearthed of post flood dinosaurs? Did any species die out before the flood or because of the flood?
    we probably cannot know since any dating method is discarded by yecs and flood people. and the geological layers may be interpreted in any way since the flood people claim the grand canyon was made in the flood.
  14. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    28 Nov '08 12:32
    Originally posted by Palynka
    I'm interested, but if I answer all your questions by saying it's an allegory would you still be interested?

    The flood myth is one of the oldest myths known to man and it is still present in some major religions today. That alone makes it an extraordinarily interesting case.
    Do you think it originated from a real flood (the Black Sea for example) or was it purely made up as an allegory?
    Is it correct to call it simultaneously allegory and myth? Or is it allegory that has become myth?

    What do you find most interesting? What it teaches / says, or simply its age and popularity?
  15. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    28 Nov '08 12:35
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Seriously, anyone who believes in a literal account of the flood needs to have his head examined. But I admire your patience. 😀
    What can you do if people refuse the head examination? YEC ideas almost got itself into the US science syllabus. I have relatives who are YECs and have had friends in the past who were.
Back to Top