A brand new flood thread

Originally posted by twhitehead
Do you think it originated from a real flood (the Black Sea for example) or was it purely made up as an allegory?
Is it correct to call it simultaneously allegory and myth? Or is it allegory that has become myth?

What do you find most interesting? What it teaches / says, or simply its age and popularity?

I'm interested in it's age and popularity. Look at this list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth
It's astounding.

I think it's correct to call it allegory and myth at the same time. Personally, I don't see the contradiction.

I don't know much about the Black Sea flood theory. Is there any solid evidence to back it up?

Originally posted by twhitehead
1. Did God violate the laws of physics when he created the flood? If so, then why do so many people try to fit it into the laws of physics and prove that it was possible within those laws? If he produced the water via a miracle he could have taken it away and even cleared up any traces of the whole event if he so chose.
If it was not a miracle then how d ...[text shortened]... ould we not declare such an influence miraculous? And what are the limits of those influences?

This is a classic example of an explanation à la "God did it that way, he can do anything, he is almighty! If we cannot understand this is because our intelect is limited compared to that of god's."

Therefore I say again, and again, that religion and science cannot ever be mixed. Trying to explain the flood scientifically is to deny god or belittle him to be a mear mortal human being with no divine qualities.

Originally posted by Palynka
I don't know much about the Black Sea flood theory. Is there any solid evidence to back it up?

This is a link: http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2003AM/finalprogram/abstract_64109.htm, but cannot garantuee anything in it's contents...

Originally posted by twhitehead
1. Did God violate the laws of physics when he created the flood? If so, then why do so many people try to fit it into the laws of physics and prove that it was possible within those laws? If he produced the water via a miracle he could have taken it away and even cleared up any traces of the whole event if he so chose.
If it was not a miracle then how d ...[text shortened]... e the animals all perfect then? Or did they (blasphemy) have beneficial mutations at some point?

1. since we know(well some of us anyway) that the flood could not have existed in accordance with physics laws, it is reasonable to assume god intervened and miracled his flood. the question is why did god break the laws he set into place and why did he erase all evidence to the even?

2. i think you can estimate the time from the obituary that precedes the noah story where it says who died and at what age.

3 ? doesn't say
4 maybe the people who made up the story didn't know that sweet water fish cannot survive in salt water. so they didn't think this aspect through.

5 if adam and eve could have been the ancestors of the wicked pre-noah world, noah and his wife and his three sons with their wives is actually a bounty of genetic material. also some say that the black race descend from ham and was cursed by god to be slave to the other races which them american bastards took as excuse for slavery Genesis 9 21-27(happy fun times, moving on)

6 again god intervened. like he did with adam and eve and the first animals. so instead of designing a mechanism by which creation could evolve by itself(see the nutty evolutionists) he personally took care that each species procreate through magic(every good christian knows sex is yucky) until enough genetic material was around. and then god allowed them to have sex finally. and he saw that it was good

Originally posted by twhitehead
Do you think it originated from a real flood (the Black Sea for example) or was it purely made up as an allegory?
Is it correct to call it simultaneously allegory and myth? Or is it allegory that has become myth?

What do you find most interesting? What it teaches / says, or simply its age and popularity?

doesn't the gilgamesh story also have a flood in it? could the jews have inspired from it as they did (or so heathens think) with the creation story?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
doesn't the gilgamesh story also have a flood in it? could the jews have inspired from it as they did (or so heathens think) with the creation story?

Give yourself a pat in the back.

Originally posted by Palynka
Give yourself a pat in the back.

your love for me is overwhelming. i can feel it from way over here. surprise me, what did i do to deserve this kind of attention this time?

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
your love for me is overwhelming. i can feel it from way over here. surprise me, what did i do to deserve this kind of attention this time?

We were already talking about the flood myth in general (including the flood story told within the Epic of Gilgamesh), not just the Christian one.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
This is a link: http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2003AM/finalprogram/abstract_64109.htm, but cannot garantuee anything in it's contents...

Thanks. Apparently there seems to be some controversy about this.

For example, here's an interesting one that argues against a rapid or catastrophic Black Sea flood:
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.quaint.2006.08.004

Floods of various kinds are relatively common world wide. It is not surprising that there are plenty of myths involving floods (as compared to say volcano or drought myths).
However the story of a god or gods selecting a person or people to survive a flood and telling them to build a boat and select animals / birds to go on the boat I think probably has a common source. Do all myths with that basic theme come from the same region of the world?

The problem with those of you who can't believe the Bible is that your imaginations are weakened by your belief in man made accounts of the origin of things.

The Bible provides more answers to the questions about the origin of life and the reasons for why life is as it is than science does.

Evolution is pure speculation. The Bible provides a sound, rational, and far more believable explanation for the origin of the universe than any arbitrary scientific amalgamations of mans' flawed and imperfect and seriously impotent intellect.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
Hey we haven't had one in a while, let's debate it again.

Genesis 6:
11 God saw that the earth was corrupt and full of lawlessness.
12 God looked at the earth: it was corrupt, for corrupt were the ways of all living things on earth.
13 God said to Noah, 'I have decided that the end has come for all living things, for the earth is full of lawlessness b ...[text shortened]... atables of all kinds, and lay in a store of them, to serve as food for yourself and them.'

Oh, the goode ole flood, eh? Well regarding this matter I stand firmly with my beloved famous Aytoun, which he wrote:

Fhairshon had a son,
Who married Noah's daughter,
And nearly spoiled ta Flood
By trinking up ta water;

Which he would have done,
I at least pelieve it,
Had the mixture peen
Only half Glenlivet.
😵

Originally posted by josephw
The problem with those of you who can't believe the Bible is that your imaginations are weakened by your belief in man made accounts of the origin of things.

The Bible provides more answers to the questions about the origin of life and the reasons for why life is as it is than science does.

Evolution is pure speculation. The Bible provides a sound, rat ...[text shortened]... trary scientific amalgamations of mans' flawed and imperfect and seriously impotent intellect.

who says the bible is wholly inspired by God? if it is, then who says god spoke the truth when he inspired it? after all, god seems to have placed a lot of "proofs" around the world to confuse man into thinking the earth is older than 6000 years like isotope decay and dinosaurs. why is he telling the truth in noah's story?

if it is not wholly inspired by god(all them genocides and murderous and tyrannical laws which apparently were god's will tend to suggest that) then who gets to choose which passages are true and which aren't? and why would noah's story be among the true stories and by what criteria will we decide if it is indeed true

EDIT: btw, evolution is not a subject of debate here. we already tried evolution with robbie, apparently he got upset, packed his toys and left to watch cartoons. it will take another month or so until we attempt another evolution thread

Originally posted by twhitehead
Floods of various kinds are relatively common world wide. It is not surprising that there are plenty of myths involving floods (as compared to say volcano or drought myths).
However the story of a god or gods selecting a person or people to survive a flood and telling them to build a boat and select animals / birds to go on the boat I think probably has a common source. Do all myths with that basic theme come from the same region of the world?

With that level of specificity, I'd say those around the Middle-East, Europe and also India. It all seems to point to a common source, (IMO probably tracing back to Sumer with its prevalence related to the dawn and explosion of writing.)

I still find it peculiar that the story of a flood wiping out mankind and leaving two our for habitants to repopulate everything is truly global (from the Aztecs to Australian aborigines). Sure, floods are relatively common, but so are fires or famines. I wouldn't be surprised if the flood which started all this (if it existed) was much, much older than 7000 ky BP and spread orally for a long time.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
i thought so too. but then i saw that the bible doesn't specify. god tells noah
"19 From all living creatures, from all living things, you must take two of each kind aboard the ark, to save their lives with yours; they must be a male and a female.
20 Of every species of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that creeps along the grou ...[text shortened]... er thread) and also includes the dinosaurs(although some say god wiped them before the flood)

How much time do you think passed before the flood from the day
of creation?

It wasn't a lot, and in the text before the flood do you see any
thing at all suggesting that God killed off the dinosaurs?
Kelly