A Few Questions to Dive

Originally posted by @sonship
Some of this is paraphrase or possible direct quote from Robert Govette, I believe

They will be hung out in chains of punishment as an example to deter other worlds.

Please credit your sources at the time, not years later and on lay as a way of deflecting personal accountability from your strange beliefs.

As stated before the main source of this paragraph was brother Robert Govette.
Because Divegeester has not effective rebuttal of what I wrote he can only re-iterate unnecessarily that the source needs to be credited.

Neither has he done any effective job at substantially showing that it is "strange".
Maybe a few passages are related to one another in an unexpected way to some bible readers.

But by-and-large it is not a strange concept put forth below. [My bolding]

God's design after life is past, is to destroy the uncorrected.
Corrective dealings have not done them any good. ...

Warning has failed. God will show that He loves righteousness and hates iniquity. If there are laws and threats attached warning of the breaking of those laws, those consequences cannot be a paper posturing. They must be executed. He must be a Righteous Governor.

He will not prove to be a careless faker.
He will prove to mean what He has patiently warned of with mercy and tolerance. Now the uncorrected sinner has been hardened by God's longsuffering. The character of God as Creator and King will fall upon him since His character as Savior has been rejected.

The saved will glorify God with their endless happiness. But the lost will glorify Him with their endless woe. They will be hung out in chains of punishment as an example to deter other worlds. That punishment is designed to deter others from like guilt is evidenced so often in the Bible.

This part I am pretty sure I liberally paraphrased Govette. The references though I obtained from Mr. Govette's book.

In the one and only theocratic society, the stubborn son who would not be corrected wast to be stoned. The harsh penalty was "So shall you put away the evil from you, and all Israel shall hear and fear." (Deut. 21:21; 27:13; 19:20).

God bears long with iniquity. He will not bear with it forever. In the end a display of the terrors of His just wrath fails, after hope is over, after mercy is past.

Destruction then is not the loss of being. It is the loss of well-being.
The welfare of the offender is then hopeless. The welfare of the saved is consulted by their destruction.

Brother Robert Govette says God will not turn out to be "a careless faker".

I think Divegeester expects God to turn out to be a "careless faker" given that God DID warn the rejecting unbeliever that he would be punished forever if not saved.

To Divegeester, it seems the giver of the lesson of Luke 16:19-31 (whether or not it is parable or history) we will see turn out to be "a careless faker".

He should credit his source for this expectation.

Originally posted by @sonship
Brother Robert Govette says God will not turn out to be "a careless faker".

You wrote/quoted:

the lost will glorify Him with their endless woe

What definition of "glory" are you using to claim that torturing billions of human beings forever in flames serves to "glorify" your god figure?

Originally posted by @sonship
Because Divegeester has not effective rebuttal of what I wrote he can only re-iterate unnecessarily that the source needs to be credited.
Neither has he done any effective job at substantially showing that it is "strange".

But the lost will glorify Him with their endless woe. [b] They will be hung out in chains of punishment as an example to deter other worlds.

To be clear: When I say your beliefs are "strange", I mean they are non-biblical, weird, odd, whacko. I mean "strange" in the strongest possible interpretation of the word. Fruitloopery, made up tomfoolery copied from other erroneous fruit loops. It's not even your original fruitloopery.

Believing that there are beings, aliens, people on other planets who can somehow witness the alleged eternal torture of billions of people as a warning not to disbelieve in a god that will torture them for eternity if they do. This is a STRANGE belief. Very weird.

Believing that these poor souls, billions of them, being melted alive by a monstrous version of the Christian god, will somehow, through this agonising terrorism, bring glory to the person executing it...is a VERY strange belief.

You are so far off piste sonship that it's hard for me to imagine how it happened.

Originally posted by @divegeester

To be clear: When I say your beliefs are "strange", I mean they are non-biblical, weird, odd, whacko. I mean "strange" in the strongest possible interpretation of the word. Fruitloopery, made up tomfoolery copied from other erroneous fruit loops. It's not even your original fruitloopery.

Well one thing is for sure. You must have a good Thesarus.
The "Fruitloopery" is largly based quotations from Scripture.

[My bolding below]

Believing that there are beings, aliens, people on other planets who can somehow witness the alleged eternal torture of billions of people as a warning not to disbelieve in a god that will torture them for eternity if they do. This is a STRANGE belief. Very weird.

You didn't answer the questions I posed to flesh out exactly where this weirdness was.

Out of one side of your mouth you boast of a grasp of parabolic speech in the Bible.
But when someone uses the phrase "chains of punishment" you fancy that you can get good mileage by lampooning that which is an expression.

Now I haven't gone back over the thread. But I don't think you demonstrated that :

I insisted that the Bible talks about space aliens. Maybe you know you'll lose some wind in your sails if you admit that I never said the Bible definitely teaches of space aliens,

I don't think you denied that when God makes all things new that there could be a possibility of new life on other worlds. This too would take some wind out of your sails.

That bad angels were said to be in eternal chains, I don't think you denied. That is the expression used by Jude.

I don't think you proved that the judged are a warning to people in Isaiah 66:24.
I don''t think I missed it.

I don't think you refuted that Jesus referred to Isaiah 66:24 in a manner to support judgment by God even after this present world.

All in all you haven't showed that my paraphrasing and quoting of Govette was all that strange.

Other than the fact that you don't LIKE the concepts, you haven't made a good case that they are unbiblical.

Believing that these poor souls, billions of them, being melted alive by a monstrous version of the Christian god, will somehow, through this agonising terrorism, bring glory to the person executing it...is a VERY strange belief.

Go back and prove that any of the preceding points is not in the Bible.

Aside from the special effects that you always need to add for maximum revulsion please explain how "eternal contempt" in Daniel 12:2 could mean annhilation into non-existence in the resurrection.

"And many of those who are sleeping in the dust of the ground will awake, some to life eternal and some to reproach, to eternal contempt." (Daniel 12:2)

Do you think the prophet saw that some would be resurrected to eternal life and others would be resurrected to be immediately sent into non-existence an "eternal contempt" ?

I don't think that is what the Bible meant. And other passages which you wish were not in the Bible, don't seem to support that view.

Originally posted by @sonship

To be clear: When I say your beliefs are "strange", I mean they are non-biblical, weird, odd, whacko. I mean "strange" in the strongest possible interpretation of the word. Fruitloopery, made up tomfoolery copied from other erroneous fruit loops. It's not even your original fruitloopery.

Well one thing is for sure. You must have a good T ...[text shortened]... meant. And other passages which you wish were not in the Bible, don't seem to support that view.

I think that you trying to justify your strange beliefs in this way is further strangeness. Just be happy that they are what they are and other people think they are strange. There is nothing whatsoever that you can say which will make me think those statements are not strange. Furthermore you started this thread to challenge me that you didn't even say them and you lack the courage and grace to apologise. So I am really not going to be impressed by one of your monologues trying to justify yourself.

Originally posted by @divegeester
I think that you trying to justify your strange beliefs in this way is further strangeness. Just be happy that they are what they are and other people think they are strange. There is nothing whatsoever that you can say which will make me think those statements are not strange. Furthermore you started this thread to challenge me that you didn't even say ...[text shortened]... . So I am really not going to be impressed by one of your monologues trying to justify yourself.

You can think whatever you need to think.

You lack the skill and the enthusiam to specifically pin-point where my references to Bible concepts is "strange" other than the fact that you don't like some stuff.

You can't answer the questions honestly can you ?

Take just the first one. PROVE that I ever .... nevermind on second thought.
I don't expect anything.

Yes I started the thread to challenge you in your re-occurring mention of my "belief" in space aliens from the Bible.

The challenge has met its purpose.
You failed.

So you will go on probably reminding people that sonship teaches "strange" things from the Bible about space aliens.

You can't prove that I dogmatically insisted that I knew of space aliens from the Bible.
And you want me to apologize to you.

You really want the Bible to apologize to you.

Originally posted by @sonship
Yes I started the thread to challenge you in your re-occurring mention of my "belief" in space aliens from the Bible.

divegeester has also challenged you on your definition of "glorify". But you are trying to blank it out.

"And many of those who are sleeping in the dust of the ground will awake, some to life eternal and some to reproach, to eternal contempt." (Daniel 12:2)

Explain your preference to Resurrection plus sending into oblivion of non-existence is what the Bible is teaching here.

Handle it.
"Eternal contempt" at the awakening of these judged ones is annihilation into non-existence as "eternal contempt".

And credit your sources.

Explain that it is totally strange that God could conceivably, as He did in Deuteronomy, use punishment as a deterrent.

Do you get that NO such warning or lesson is implied in this ?

" Then they wil go forth and look on the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against Me;

For their worm will not die, Nor will their fire be quenched;

And they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh." (Isaiah 66:24)

Do you prefer that their non-existence be an abhorrence to all flesh ?
Well, you may prefer that.
But that is not what the word of God told us.

So I pay attention to what was told us in this regard along with other positive and comforting things God told us. I don't think it "strange" to trust both.

The Father has uttered both.

Originally posted by @sonship
You can think whatever you need to think.

You lack the skill and the enthusiam to specifically pin-point where my references to Bible concepts is "strange" other than the fact that you don't like some stuff.

You can't answer the questions honestly can you ?

Take just the first one. PROVE that I ever .... nevermind on second thought.
I don't expect anything.

The evidence of your strange beliefs are in the quotes I posted proving that you were wrong in claiming you didn't say them, a claim you have made and been proved to be false before.

The post s on page 2, 5th down. As you well know.

People on other worlds...witnessing the torture of hell...glorifying God in their woe... etc etc etc

Originally posted by @sonship
Yes I started the thread to challenge you in your re-occurring mention of my "belief" in space aliens from the Bible.

The challenge has met its purpose.
You failed.

So you will go on probably reminding people that sonship teaches "strange" things from the Bible about space aliens.

You can't prove that I dogmatically insisted that I knew of ...[text shortened]... d you want me to apologize to you.

You really want the [b] Bible to apologize to you.[/b]

An "Alien" is merely a foreigner, non native to the planet earth. The onus is on you to demonstrate how these people on other worlds are not aliens to earth.


Edit: that you didn't not recognise your own beliefs on this matter as being VERY strange, is quite astonishing and a little amusing.

Originally posted by @divegeester
An "Alien" is merely a foreigner, non native to the planet earth. The onus is on you to demonstrate how these people on other worlds are not aliens to earth.


Edit: that you didn't not recognise your own beliefs on this matter as being VERY strange, is quite astonishing and a little amusing.

You're grasping a flimsy straws.
Probably better to cut your losses and bail out.

"Aliens are foreigners".
Is that suppose to be some devastating knock out here ?

Some mild "little amusing" is all you have left.
Thanks for another opportunity to show how rather weak your re-visiting this criticism of my "strange beliefs" is.

Originally posted by @sonship
You're grasping a flimsy straws.
Probably better to cut your losses and bail out.

"Aliens are foreigners".
Is that suppose to be some devastating knock out here ?

Some mild "amusing" is all you have left.
Thanks for another opportunity to show how rather weak your re-visiting this criticism of my "strange beliefs" is.

Can you give a definition of "glorify" - in the strange way you used it - that doesn't make you and your notion of god seem utterly "evil"?