a good question

i know an atheist who told me about how he used to be a christiand and how he became an atheist and what it is like to be an atheist and he tried to prove christianity wrong to me, cuz im a christian. he asked,"If God made everything, then who made God? You can't make yourself."
i didnt have an answer to it, but now i do have an answer to it: "how does a universe make itself?" whether you believe in the big bang or evolution, youre implying that the universe just happened and was there, or just materialized itself out of nothing i guess.
Both theories are pretty hard to believe cuz they both seem impossible, so i would have to say it had to be God. only God, somebody with divine powers could do the impossible.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
i know an atheist who told me about how he used to be a christiand and how he became an atheist and what it is like to be an atheist and he tried to prove christianity wrong to me, cuz im a christian. he asked,"If God made everything, then who made God? You can't make yourself."
i didnt have an answer to it, but now i do have an answer to it: "how ...[text shortened]... ave to say it had to be God. only God, somebody with divine powers could do the impossible.

Dont you know that 1 + -1=0

Originally posted by frogstomp
Dont you know that 1 + -1=0

do you have a better explanation?

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
do you have a better explanation?

yeah Ekpyrotics and its big cousin Cyclic Theory

Originally posted by frogstomp
yeah Ekpyrotics and its big cousin Cyclic Theory

so you believe that two universes collided and causing one to reverse and expand. then hot matter and radiation caused the big bang. source:http://ekpyrotic.mindbit.com/
but where did the universes come from? they created themselves? and pay close attention to this part:

There are major outstanding problems with the ekpyrotic scenario. Foremost among them is that colliding branes are not understood by string theorists, and nobody knows if the scale invariant spectrum will be destroyed by the big crunch, or even what happens when two branes collide. Moreover, like cosmic inflation, while the general character of the forces (in the ekpyrotic scenario, a force between branes) required to create the vacuum fluctuations is known, There is no candidate from particle physics. Moreover, the scenario uses some essential ideas from string theory, principally extra dimensions, branes and orbifolds. String theory itself is a controversial idea in the physics community.

Detractors of the original ekpyrotic scenario point out that it requires fine-tuned, nearly supersymmetric initial conditions, and thus replaces the problems solved by cosmic inflation with a new set of problems. The original scenario has been supplanted by a new more flexible and successful set of ideas, embodied in the cyclic model.

now this one
http://www.stnews.org/News-1300.htm
after skimming through it i found that it was pretty ridiculuous with scientists making up one theory after another based on assumptions of assumptions.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
so you believe that two universes collided and causing one to reverse and expand. then hot matter and radiation caused the big bang. source:http://ekpyrotic.mindbit.com/
but where did the universes come from? they created themselves? and pay close attention to this part:

There are major outstanding problems with the ekpyrotic scenario. Foremost iculuous with scientists making up one theory after another based on assumptions of assumptions.

Inflationary models suffer from a conceptual inadequacy in that they are constructed using a combination of relativistic quantum field theory and classic general relativity. String theory is a theory of quantum gravity. So string theory ought to be able to describe cosmology on a more fundamental level than inflationary models are capable of describing.


However, you asked for how the universe might have came into being, without being created by an intelligence. So I gave you 3 examples of how. I don't really care if you belive in the Big Splat or believe in the giant brane collision. Don't assume that I believe in it either since I don't ever express my own beliefs on line.

p.s. they are the same thing

CHESS (II)

Faint-hearted king, sly bishop, ruthless queen,
Straightforward castle, and deceitful pawn -
Over the checkered black and white terrain
They seek out and begin their armed campaign.

They do not know it is the player’s hand
That dominates and guides their destiny.
They do not know an adamantine fate
Controls their will and lays the battle plan.

The player too is captive of caprice
(The words are Omar’s) on another ground
Where black nights alternate with whiter days.

God moves the players, he in turn the piece.
But what god beyond God begins the round
Of dust and time and sleep and agonies?

Jorge Luis Borges

- J

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
i know an atheist who told me about how he used to be a christiand and how he became an atheist and what it is like to be an atheist and he tried to prove christianity wrong to me, cuz im a christian. he asked,"If God made everything, then who made God? You can't make yourself."
i didnt have an answer to it, but now i do have an answer to it: "how ...[text shortened]... ave to say it had to be God. only God, somebody with divine powers could do the impossible.

When you ask when it all started, you are actually asking when time began, no? Time measures from point A to point B, therefore, point A is when the universe began and science points to it as being about 15 billion years ago via the Big Bang. Time was created ONLY when the material universe was created because time is merely a deminsion of that material universe as is hight, width, length, etc. The only answer then is that God did not originate from a material universe in which time existed. After all, if time is merely a deminsion of the material universe, it did not exist before that material universe came into being. Therefore God need not have a time in which he began, rather, God created time in which we came into being.

Originally posted by whodey
When you ask when it all started, you are actually asking when time began, no? Time measures from point A to point B, therefore, point A is when the universe began and science points to it as being about 15 billion years ago via the Big Bang. Time was created ONLY when the material universe was created because time is merely a deminsion of that material uni ...[text shortened]... od need not have a time in which he began, rather, God created time in which we came into being.

definition of time
1 a : the measured or measurable period during which an action, process, or condition exists or continues : DURATION b : a nonspatial continuum that is measured in terms of events which succeed one another from past through present to future c : 2 : the point or period when something occurs : OCCASION
3 a : an appointed, fixed, or customary moment or hour for something to happen, begin, or end b : an opportune or suitable moment -- often used in the phrase about time
4 a : a historical period : AGE b : a division of geologic chronology c : conditions at present or at some specified period -- usually used in plural d : the present time
5 a : LIFETIME b : a period of apprenticeship c : a term of military service d : a prison sentence
6 : SEASON
7 a : rate of speed : TEMPO b : the grouping of the beats of music : RHYTHM
8 a : a moment, hour, day, or year as indicated by a clock or calendar b : any of various systems (as sidereal or solar) of reckoning time
9 a : one of a series of recurring instances or repeated actions b plural (1) : added or accumulated quantities or instances (2) : equal fractional parts of which an indicated number equal a comparatively greater quantity c : TURN
10 : finite as contrasted with infinite duration
11 : a person's experience during a specified period or on a particular occasion
12 a : the hours or days required to be occupied by one's work b : an hourly pay rate c : wages paid at discharge or resignation
13 a : the playing time of a game b : TIME-OUT 1
14 : a period during which something is used or available for use
- at the same time : NEVERTHELESS, YET
- at times : at intervals : OCCASIONALLY
- for the time being : for the present
- from time to time : once in a while : OCCASIONALLY
- in no time : very quickly or soon

Originally posted by whodey
When you ask when it all started, you are actually asking when time began, no? Time measures from point A to point B, therefore, point A is when the universe began and science points to it as being about 15 billion years ago via the Big Bang. Time was created ONLY when the material universe was created because time is merely a deminsion of that material uni ...[text shortened]... od need not have a time in which he began, rather, God created time in which we came into being.

Tell me how many big bangs are in the universe?
How big is the Universe?
On a different tact, you insist that "time is merely a deminsion(dimension) of the material universe" and then jump to the conclusion that time didn't exist before the big bang?
Science has no way of telling what, if anything, happened before the big bang and neither do you.

Originally posted by frogstomp
Tell me how many big bangs are in the universe?
How big is the Universe?
On a different tact, you insist that "time is merely a deminsion(dimension) of the material universe" and then jump to the conclusion that time didn't exist before the big bang?
Science has no way of telling what, if anything, happened before the big bang and neither do you.

who says a universe is needed to have time? thats a stupid assumption, time doesnt stop for a universe, it continues with or without anything.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
who says a universe is needed to have time? thats a stupid assumption, time doesnt stop for a universe, it continues with or without anything.

You are young, and obviously naive. Time-space is all one dimension.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
i know an atheist who told me about how he used to be a christiand and how he became an atheist and what it is like to be an atheist and he tried to prove christianity wrong to me, cuz im a christian. he asked,"If God made everything, then who made God? You can't make yourself."
i didnt have an answer to it, but now i do have an answer to it: "how ...[text shortened]... ave to say it had to be God. only God, somebody with divine powers could do the impossible.

Cause and effect does not apply to the start of the universe.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
You are young, and obviously naive. Time-space is all one dimension.

time is just an idea, not an actual thing. you dont need anything to have time, even if there was no big bang or universe you would still have time; just an uneventful time.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Cause and effect does not apply to the start of the universe.

yeah it does, if you believe in the big bang right?