A question for Jewish people on the site

Originally posted by lucifershammer
What was that you guys were saying about atheists defending Jews again?

Oh please.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Oh please.

Do you have any arguments for or against kirksey's views in the opening post? Or any of the posts that followed?

Originally posted by lucifershammer

you will find only a handful of Christians who hold to that doctrine. In the larger world of Christianity, that group is an even smaller proportion.
Excuse the correction, but in your attempt to be as ecumenical as possible, you appear to have stepped over a line of demarcation within sound Christian doctrine.
Moreover, your assertion that those who hold to the doctrine of 'faith alone in Christ alone' is limited to fundamentalists and a small proportion of Christendom is baseless.

the Orthodox also believe that the Jews are God's Chosen People and the God they worship is the One True God.
The Orthodox? To what Orthodox do you refer? The view of orthodoxy holds the Bible to be true, holds that 'faith alone, in Christ alone' is the only way to salvation.
Orthodox holds that ALL who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation will be saved, and that ALL who do not, will not be saved.

Orthodox recognizes that, while the racial Jew holds a unique position in the world and has been extended certain promises, those promises which are spiritual in nature are contingent upon faith.
Orthodox holds that not all who are racial Israel are spiritual Israel.

Orthodox holds that ALL have been purchased, that ALL are guaranteed salvation, upon acceptance of the same, via Jesus Christ. Further, that those who go to eternal damnation (regardless of racial distinction) are only those who reject the Lord Jesus Christ.
Anything less than the view of orthodoxy is not orthodox.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Do you have any arguments for or against kirksey's views in the opening post? Or any of the posts that followed?

I've already responded to one of your posts.

Kirksey calls for thoughts, rather than arguments, in response to his perceptions. Well, first, I think that he was hoping for a response from Jewish users, which he failed to get. Clearly, they don't visit this forum, or don't post, or something.

Regarding your conundrum--I guess you made the assumption that one must pray to God to be a Jew; well, atheist, communist and fascist Jews exist; then there those like my friend of mine whom I spoke to the other day--she doesn't know the meaning behind Hanukkah, but will forever consider herself a Jew. So, your conundrum sounds hollow.

From an atheist perspective (as I see it), another person's religious belief does not make them any more or less human or worthy of consideration; a believer is as likely as an atheist to be a fool.

A quote from an atheist: "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it".

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Orthodox holds that ALL have been purchased, that ALL are guaranteed salvation, upon acceptance of the same, via Jesus Christ. Further, that those who go to eternal damnation (regardless of racial distinction) are only those who reject the Lord Jesus Christ.
Anything less than the view of orthodoxy is not orthodox.

Just to be clear--in your view, a Jew who prays to the God of the Torah but does not accept Jesus Christ is bound for damnation--right?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage

A quote from an atheist: "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it".
Amen.
P.S. When did you move to the Fields?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
P.S. When did you move to the Fields?

When I became a Neanderthal.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
you will find only a handful of Christians who hold to that doctrine. In the larger world of Christianity, that group is an even smaller proportion.
Excuse the correction, but in your attempt to be as ecumenical as possible, you appear to have stepped over a line of demarcation within sound Christian doctrine.
Moreover, your assertion that those who ...[text shortened]... ho reject the Lord Jesus Christ.
Anything less than the view of orthodoxy is not orthodox.[/b]

If you wish to open a debate on the historical and theological merits of the sola fide doctrine, I recommend you start a new thread; I'll be happy to take it up there.

Moreover, your assertion that those who hold to the doctrine of 'faith alone in Christ alone' is limited to fundamentalists and a small proportion of Christendom is baseless.

Of the roughly 2bn Christians worldwide, about 1.3bn are Catholics and Orthodox - and they do not hold to sola fide. Of the remaining 700mn Protestants, I suspect that not a few (the Anglicans are the most likely candidates) would reject it as well.

The Orthodox? To what Orthodox do you refer?

The Eastern Orthodox Churches. More generally, would include the Oriental Orthodox Churches as well.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]you will find only a handful of Christians who hold to that doctrine. In the larger world of Christianity, that group is an even smaller proportion.
Excuse the correction, but in your attempt to be as ecumenical as possible, you appear to have stepped over a line of demarcation within sound Christian doctrine.
Moreover, your assertion that those w ...[text shortened]... ho reject the Lord Jesus Christ.
Anything less than the view of orthodoxy is not orthodox.[/b]

So there you have it.

Christians apparently believe that not only are the Jewish going to hell, but the entire 67% of the people on the earth who are non-christians are going to hell. Apparently only the 33% of the earth's population who profess to be christian have any hope of being saved. That would be about 4 billion of the earth's current 6 billion population who are destined for the lake of fire.

Christians think only they will be rewarded and everyone else will be punished in the afterlife.

Atheists, since they don't believe in an afterlife, think no one will be rewarded and no one will be punished.

If you're a non-christian theist (like Judaism, perhaps), which of the above two positions would be most to your advantage if it turned out to be true?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Just to be clear--in your view, a Jew who prays to the God of the Torah but does not accept Jesus Christ is bound for damnation--right?

Unless and until a person accepts salvation via Jesus Christ, any prayer uttered to anyone is useless.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
If you wish to open a debate on the historical and theological merits of the sola fide doctrine, I recommend you start a new thread; I'll be happy to take it up there.

Moreover, your assertion that those who hold to the doctrine of 'faith alone in Christ alone' is limited to fundamentalists and a small proportion of Christendom is baseles tern Orthodox Churches. More generally, would include the Oriental Orthodox Churches as well.

So Protestants believe sola fide is both necessary and sufficient for salvation.

Catholics believe sola fide is necessary but not sufficient for salvation.

Either way, that still leaves the world's 4 billion non-christians out in the cold. Or in the lake of fire, as the case may be.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Unless and until a person accepts salvation via Jesus Christ, any prayer uttered to anyone is useless.

In your opinion.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Unless and until a person accepts salvation via Jesus Christ, any prayer uttered to anyone is useless.

Do you have an explanation for these experiences that people have after death where they come back to tell of incredibly peaceful moments? I have had some Jewish people tell me about these.

Originally posted by lucifershammer

about 1.3bn are Catholics and Orthodox - and they do not hold to sola fide.
Assuming, of course that those counted by the same, hold to every doctrine found within. In my small sphere of influence, there are but a few Catholics who know (let alone understand) all of the tenets of their denomination. I'd dare say you could multiply my experience more than a few times, and still not cover the ignorance of the majority of the other 1.3 billion. So, to consider all those counted as Catholic as being versed and therefore believing all the Catholic church accepts, is quite a stretch.

Originally posted by kirksey957
Do you have an explanation for these experiences that people have after death where they come back to tell of incredibly peaceful moments? I have had some Jewish people tell me about these.

Not that you would accept!