Originally posted by josephwHow do you know you haven't misunderstood it?
Originally posted by josephw
It seems rather disingenuous that you should ask, "what do you think the Bible says about that?"
[b]"Disingenuous? Not so. I am asking you what you believe."
I believe what the Word of God teaches.[/b]
Originally posted by josephwYou've got it wrong. I do not claim that I was saved. What I have told you is that I used to believe that I was saved in much the same way as you now believe that you are saved.
But you make the claim that you were saved. I think it has been adequately explained to you how and why it is that if one is saved they are always saved.
Originally posted by josephwWell if I'm "saved" according to your understanding of your scripture then it makes your beliefs regarding "salvation" incoherent.
One cannot go from being saved to being lost. That is backwards, and that idea cannot be supported by either reason or logic or the scriptures.
Originally posted by FMFNo, you think you believed you were saved. Whether you were actually saved or not I cannot tell. If you were truly saved, then you still are. Only you can know that for certain.
You've got it wrong. I do not claim that I was saved. What I have told you is that I used to believe that I was saved in much the same way as you now believe that you are saved.
"...I was saved in much the same way as you now believe that you are saved."
Anyone who is saved is saved in the same way as anyone else.
Originally posted by josephwNot so. Please do not attempt to reach back into the past and alter what I once believed. I won't be trying to do such an absurd thing to you, I can assure you. When I was a Christian I believed that I was saved. You believe you are saved. Well, that's what I believed when I was a Christian.
No, you think you believed you were saved.
Originally posted by josephwHaven't you been giving the question posed by DeepThought serious thought ever since you became a Christian?
I need to think about that for awhile. Not because I don't know, but because I'm not sure how to answer that in a way that would convince you I'm not delusional.
I will give this some serious thought.
Originally posted by FMFOne must believe to be saved. God's salvation in this present dispensation of grace is a complete salvation wholly dependent on what Jesus did on the cross and not by any merit of the one saved.
Well if people who become non-believers are "saved" in the same way as anyone else, then what is the point of holding and persisting with the belief that only believers are "saved"?
Becoming a "non-believer" doesn't negate that salvation. Regardless.
Just out of curiosity, were you 28 years old when you became a non-believer?
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Originally posted by FMFOf course.
Haven't you been giving the question posed by DeepThought serious thought ever since you became a Christian?
I know that I know, but right now I'm very tired. I've been up and running for nearly 20 hours. I just checked in, but I'm now going to hit the sack. I need sleep. Back at ya tomorrow. Good night John.
It's John right? 😳
Originally posted by josephwOne must believe to be saved. God's salvation in this present dispensation of grace is a complete salvation wholly dependent on what Jesus did on the cross and not by any merit of the one saved.
I did believe. But I don't now. So you are saying I am saved although I don't believe?
Becoming a "non-believer" doesn't negate that salvation. Regardless.
OK, it seems you are saying I am saved although I don't believe. Are you not concerned that this makes a nonsense of your belief in "salvation" and in what constitutes eligibility for "salvation"?
Just out of curiosity, were you 28 years old when you became a non-believer?
No. Significantly older.