Originally posted by FMFHave I ever sent any PMs to anyone asking for personal info? I think I have better social skills than to go there. No, I just thought I saw that name somewhere in a thread. I see posters refer to one another by name from time to time. First names only though.
No. It's not. And, please, do not send me any PMs asking me for personal information like my name or my address.
God forbid we should ever know each other's name! That would be way over the top too personal. Hell, we might be in danger of becoming friends and liking each other. 😵
Just kidding! 😛
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-Removed-I don't care about FMFs private life any more than I care about yours. He incessantly talks about himself (extolling his own virtues) and I'll ask him questions about that. But he's been following your lead here, so let's take a brief look back in regard to your original question:
You're concerned that someone in heaven might feel anguish over a loved one being in hell. The Bible makes it clear this won't happen, so this is a scenario you've cooked up as a what if (and if so why and/or how) type of question. If I'm wrong then please explain what problem (relevant to Biblical teaching) your question addresses.
There are a number of questions that can be asked about this scenario:
1) how is it someone in heaven would not feel anguish?
2) assuming God is able remove our fears and anguish, how is he able to accomplish this?
3) why would God allow someone in heaven to suffer anguish because they know a loved one is in hell?
We can toss out #3 (the why) because according to the Bible it won't happen... no one in heaven will feel anguish or torment for any reason.
Answering #2 answers #1, so the relevant question is 'how'. The how asks about the mechanics of God removing memory, or if memory is intact then how does he remove the anguish. My answer is I don't know... and neither do you, because in order to know you would need to be God, or maybe one of his angels.
"Waking from a dream" does not address the mechanics question. That was simply an idea of how transition from life to afterlife might appear to someone observing his own transition. The question of mechanics in the spiritual realm cannot be answered. We are only familiar with how the mechanics of anything might work here in the natural realm.
Originally posted by lemon limeWhat do you make of bbar's suggstion that this could result in you losing your personal identity? Here is what he said:
We can toss out #3 (the why) because according to the Bible it won't happen... no one in heaven will feel anguish or torment for any reason.
I believe that part of what makes me this person that I am is that I have a a particular set of deeply held beliefs, character traits, values, memories and relationships. These psychological properties of me both distinguish me from others and are the basis of the claim that, for instance, I'm the same person now I was last week, last year, etc.
But if, upon my awakening in Heaven or Hell, much of this just fades away like a dream, then I wonder if it makes sense to say that's it's actually me who ends up in Heaven in Hell. Page 33 of this thread.
Originally posted by FMFYou can find my response on page 34 of this thread.
What do you make of bbar's suggstion that this could result in you losing your personal identity? Here is what he said:
[b]I believe that part of what makes me this person that I am is that I have a a particular set of deeply held beliefs, character traits, values, memories and relationships. These psychological properties of me both distinguish me from othe ...[text shortened]... to say that's it's actually me who ends up in Heaven in Hell. Page 33 of this thread.[/b]
Waking up from a dream was a rough analogy, to express the idea of how a transition might appear to someone making the transition from life to afterlife.
Originally posted by lemon limeI can perhaps see how my "virtues", such as they are, might rile you or get you bent out of shape, but I doubt you have any convincing evidence that I spend much time "extolling" them. 😀
[FMF] incessantly talks about himself (extolling his own virtues) and I'll ask him questions about that.
Originally posted by lemon limeI don't see where you have addressed bbar's point about losing who you essentially are if anguish related to love, compassion and devotion ~ things that go a long way to defining who you are ~ are simply extinguished.
You can find my response on page 34 of this thread.
Waking up from a dream was a rough analogy, to express the idea of how a transition might appear to someone making the transition from life to afterlife.
Originally posted by FMFIf you forget about something, does this mean you are no longer who you are? Do you stop being you?
I don't see where you have addressed bbar's point about losing who you essentially are if anguish related to love, compassion and devotion ~ things that go a long way to defining who you are ~ are simply extinguished.
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Originally posted by lemon limeI think if you forget who you are or were, and lose the narrative that made you what you were, then I think it is a loss of identity, yes. The body would be left. But I don't think the mere body is the real you. I think it's the unique narrative that is you.
If you forget about something, does this mean you are no longer who you are? Do you stop being you?
The removal of anguish, I believe, would make the opposite of anguish ~ joy ~ rather meaningless, more especially so if it were a permanent and unchanging state of joy. This notion of "heaven" you seem to be describing is unappealing and rings false to me.