1. Cape Town
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    08 Feb '12 06:37
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I'm a Christian and I grapple everyday (well most days) with the challenge of having sufficient faith to see me through it all. I wouldn't give it up though - it's not mine to give up.
    Do you have any beliefs that require you to go against our internal moral compass? For example, if you were told by some terrorist that they would kill your wife unless you blasphemed against God (or some similar unforgivable sin that would deny you a place in heaven) what would you choose? Or do you believe that morality comes first and religion second? Or do you believe that God is good therefore morality must fit with religion? Who judges morality, you or the Bible, or your pastor?
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    08 Feb '12 07:41
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Do you have any beliefs that require you to go against our internal moral compass? For example, if you were told by some terrorist that they would kill your wife unless you blasphemed against God (or some similar unforgivable sin that would deny you a place in heaven) what would you choose? Or do you believe that morality comes first and religion second? ...[text shortened]... herefore morality must fit with religion? Who judges morality, you or the Bible, or your pastor?
    I don't have any beliefs that go against my moral compass. In a hypothetical situation where my wife's life depended on me blaspheming, then I would blaspheme.
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    08 Feb '12 07:48
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    You should ask about Erythropoietin.
    Didn't get the chance but she will be on medication anyway. Besides the issue is iron deficiency.

    I'm assuming you would refuse the transfusion, or if it was your wife...??
  4. Cape Town
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    08 Feb '12 08:15
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I don't have any beliefs that go against my moral compass. In a hypothetical situation where my wife's life depended on me blaspheming, then I would blaspheme.
    Do you feel that any religion that does require you to go against your internal moral compass is inherently wrong? If so, why?
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    08 Feb '12 08:411 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Do you feel that any religion that does require you to go against your internal moral compass is inherently wrong? If so, why?
    I don't know as it depends on the individual's personal morals, and some people don't have much of those and some are warped. That said if a person is doing things in the name of religion which they fundamentally believe to be morally wrong, then there seems to be no point in the religion.
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    08 Feb '12 08:561 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Didn't get the chance but she will be on medication anyway. Besides the issue is iron deficiency.

    I'm assuming you would refuse the transfusion, or if it was your wife...??
    I would never have let it get to that stage. Also I see you never took the time to
    research erythropoeitin, its use in cases of Anemia is well established, a naturally
    occurring hormone which stimulates the bodies own production of red blood cells, its
    expensive, but worth it.
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    08 Feb '12 09:01
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I would never have let it get to that stage. Also I see you never took the time to research erythropoeitin, its use in cases of Anemia is well established, a naturally
    occurring hormone which stimulates the bodies own production of red blood cells and instead you seek to use the rather emotive subject of your wifes illness to attempt to discredit our stance on blood transfusion. Tabloid journalism at its worst.
    ...you seek to use the rather emotive subject of your wifes illness to attempt to discredit our stance on blood transfusion. Tabloid journalism at its worst.

    Steady on, robbie. Doesn't reflect well on you. If you're comfortable with your organization's corporate policy, why not be content with that. No need to put the boot in when divegeester is in the midst of a family crisis. Have a little understanding that his licence is a little different to yours at a time like this.
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    08 Feb '12 09:102 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    [b]...you seek to use the rather emotive subject of your wifes illness to attempt to discredit our stance on blood transfusion. Tabloid journalism at its worst.

    Steady on, robbie. Doesn't reflect well on you. If you're comfortable with your organization's corporate policy, why not be content with that. No need to put the boot in when divegeester is in the ...[text shortened]... e a little understanding that his licence is a little different to yours at a time like this.[/b]
    actually FMF, i removed the reference after reflection for i am not so insensitive to his
    dilemma or suffering in others. I am unsure whether the OP was genuine about asking
    us for medical advice or using it as a type of emotionalism. If it is tactless, then I
    apologise, what my wifes circumstances have to do with it, i cannot say, can you?
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    08 Feb '12 09:12
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    actually FMF, i removed the reference after reflection for i am not so insensitive to his dilemma or suffering in others.
    Oh well, I caught your insensitivity with my Reply & Quote, as it happens. You removed it I see. But perhaps your true colours were on show there for a candid moment or so.
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    08 Feb '12 09:14
    Originally posted by FMF
    Oh well, I caught your insensitivity with my Reply & Quote, as it happens. You removed it I see. But perhaps your true colours were on show there for a candid moment or so.
    I have explained why, what has the unfortunate instance got to do with my stance on
    blood products or my wifes health issues? If it has nothing, then why is the OP making
    reference to them, can you say?
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    08 Feb '12 09:15
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    ...what my wifes circumstances have to do with it, i cannot say, can you?
    Well I am not, as I am sure you are probably aware, particularly animated about your JW transfusion policy. But the point - about your "wifes circumstances" - I suppose, is the question of whether you would let her die if a transfusion was the way out of the medical crisis. A second question would perhaps be whether you would let divegeester's wife die if a transfusion from you was the way out of the medical crisis. But I will let others debate this with you.
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    08 Feb '12 09:17
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I have explained why, what has the unfortunate instance got to do with my stance on
    blood products or my wifes health issues? If it has nothing, then why is the OP making
    reference to them, can you say?
    Your decision to put the boot in has been noted, regardless of whether you editted it out. You can't really complain if people put the boot in with you.
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    08 Feb '12 09:22
    Originally posted by FMF
    Well I am not, as I am sure you are probably aware, particularly animated about your JW transfusion policy. But the point - about your "wifes circumstances" - I suppose, is the question of whether you would let her die if a transfusion was the way out of the medical crisis. A second question would perhaps be whether you would let divegeester's wife die if a tran ...[text shortened]... n from you was the way out of the medical crisis. But I will let others debate this with you.
    thankyou, it establishes my point, that to use the instance in this way is not only
    distasteful and offensive to me but is a type of tabloid journalism that uses highly
    emotive subjects to degrade others. If this has nothing to do with me or my family
    why are you stating that it has and more than that you are suggesting that i would let
    my wife die in this instance, when you dont know anything about alternative
    treatments, one of which i have already mentioned, why is that FMF, what do you hope
    to gain from this ? If you want to call me a wife murderer, just come out and say it, i
    dont mind.
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    08 Feb '12 09:253 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    Your decision to put the boot in has been noted, regardless of whether you editted it out. You can't really complain if people put the boot in with you.
    I merely questioned on what basis this has anything to do with my family, it has nothing
    and yet here you are, in the lowest meanest and most callous way attempting to
    suggest that because divesgeesters wife is ill, i would let her die and if it was my wife i
    would let her die also, talk about putting the boot in.
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    08 Feb '12 09:38
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I merely questioned on what basis this has to do with my family, it has nothing
    and yet here you are, in the lowest meanest and most callous way attempting to
    suggest that because divesgeesters wife is ill, i would let her die and if it was my wife i would let her die also, talk about putting the boot in.
    So you would provide the transfusion if it was necessary, to either woman or indeed to divegeester or to me, for instance? You should have just said so at the outset rather than getting nasty, robbie.
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