1. Standard memberRBHILL
    Acts 13:48
    California
    Joined
    21 May '03
    Moves
    223256
    07 Feb '11 20:427 edits
    Sorry to disappoint you with the facts.

    1. Do not worship other gods: There are about 20% of people in the world that are saved through Jesus. Out of 6 Billion that worship other gods is 4.8 Billion.

    2. Do not make any idols: Probably close to everyone has had an idol they worship.

    3. Do no misuse the Lord's name: Everyone has probably used God’s name in vain.

    4. Keep the Sabbath Holy: Lots of people work on this day and don’t reflect on God. And they need 7 days to work to make money and can’t trust God one working for 6 days.

    5. Honor your Father and Mother: People dishonor their parents by doing anything on this list.

    6. Do not Murder: Just in the US 100,000 people were murdered in the last 6 years, 46 people a day on average. Columbia has more 78 a day. World Wide 541 per day an average of every 23 seconds. 10% out of 1,000 get murdered. That is 600 Million out of 6 Billion. And that will make about 600 Million Murderers out there that will be cought or not. There is like 200,000 unsolve murders in the US alone.
    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

    7. Do not commit adultery: look at all the babies born outside of marriages. 50 percent of Americans say President Clinton's adultery makes his moral ... -75 % of men and 65% of women admit to having sex with people they work with. ...
    http://www.womansavers.com/infidelity-statistics.asp

    8. Do not steal: 1in 11 people steal. 27 Million out of 300 Million in the US. In a population of 6 billion that would be:545 Million people.
    http://www.shopliftingprevention.org/whatnaspoffers/nrc/publiceducstats.htm

    9. Do not lie: Jun 10, 2002 ... Most people lie in everyday conversation when they are trying to appear ... found that 60 percent of people lied at least once during … out of 6 Billion that is 3.6 Billion. http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-06/uoma-urf061002.php

    10. Do not covet: Probably everyone has coveted at least one in their life.
    This is why we need a savior.

    And don't forget about all the other laws in the O.T. that people misuse.

    The question shouldn’t be were evil comes from? The Bible says that no one does good.

    It should be where does good come from and there is good in us because we were made in the image of God.
  2. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
    Brisbane,QLD
    Joined
    11 Apr '09
    Moves
    91521
    08 Feb '11 01:311 edit
    Originally posted by RBHILL
    Sorry to disappoint you with the facts.

    1. Do not worship other gods: There are about 20% of people in the world that are saved through Jesus. Out of 6 Billion that worship other gods is 4.8 Billion.

    2. Do not make any idols: Probably close to everyone has had an idol they worship.

    3. Do no misuse the Lord's name: Everyone has probably used God’s nam e where does good come from and there is good in us because we were made in the image of God.
    1.Neither agree or disagree

    2.Disagree

    3.Disagree, there is no such thing

    4.Disagree

    5.Agree with first part

    6.Agree

    7.Strongly disagree

    8.Agree

    9.Agree , strongly

    10.Jury out
  3. Joined
    02 Aug '06
    Moves
    12622
    08 Feb '11 11:405 edits
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    1.Neither agree or disagree

    2.Disagree

    3.Disagree, there is no such thing

    4.Disagree

    5.Agree with first part

    6.Agree

    7.Strongly disagree

    8.Agree

    9.Agree , strongly

    10.Jury out
    The tenth commandment "You shall not covet" is a catchall.

    To want jealously what another has is universal. This is really a command against a feeling, like "You shall not FEEL that way."

    It is really impossible for any person to say they have not coveted.
    People covet material possessions.
    People covet artistic creations.
    People covet educational degrees.
    People covet the spirituality of others.
    People covet political enfluence and power.
    People covet popularity, money, fame, peace and quiet, property, rights, land, sexual partners, computers, cars, philosophical enfluence, air time, copyrighted material, military power, food, air, water, you name it.

    The jury should not be out. People want jealously of others many many things. They covet.

    All people are covetous, not trusting enough of God, and short of thanksgiving.
    There should be no questionmark. We have all broken the tenth commandment.
  4. Wat?
    Joined
    16 Aug '05
    Moves
    76863
    08 Feb '11 11:501 edit
    Originally posted by jaywill
    The tenth ommandment [b]"You shall not covet" is a catchall.

    To want jealously what another has is universal. This is really a command against a feeling, like "You shall not FEEL that way."

    It is really impossible for any person to say they have not coveted.[/b]
    Speak for yourself.

    I have never coveted. I have always created what I have, from what I have, to get to where I am at and what I have.

    I have never envied. (You use the word 'jealous' - where the true meaning of jealous is not knowing the outcome of if something will happen or not.) 'Envy' is the true word for what you mean to say.

    Therefore, it is impossible for one to say all have coveted. I have not. I care not for what others have, and never have done. I achieve through my own means to get and be at a level which suffices me. I envy nobody! It is far from universal to envy.

    -m.
  5. Joined
    02 Aug '06
    Moves
    12622
    08 Feb '11 12:00
    Originally posted by mikelom
    Speak for yourself.

    I have never coveted. I have always created what I have, from what I have, to get to where I am at and what I have.

    I have never envied. (You use the word 'jealous' - where the true meaning of jealous is not knowing the outcome of if something will happen or not.) 'Envy' is the true word for what you mean to say.

    Therefore, it is ...[text shortened]... and be at a level which suffices me. I envy nobody! It is far from universal to envy.

    -m.
    ===========================
    Speak for yourself.
    =======================


    I am speaking for myself. You don't think I can speak for anyone else on this too?

    ============================
    I have never coveted. I have always created what I have, from what I have, to get to where I am at and what I have.
    =============================


    These commandments do not say that each one is broken by someone all the time. But I am pretty sure you have looked jealously at someone else to want what they had.

    ======================================
    I have never envied. (You use the word 'jealous' - where the true meaning of jealous is not knowing the outcome of if something will happen or not.) 'Envy' is the true word for what you mean to say.
    ===================================


    You never envied something of someone else ? Not once? Not even as a sibling or child ?

    ========================================
    Therefore, it is impossible for one to say all have coveted. I have not. I care not for what others have, and never have done. I achieve through my own means to get and be at a level which suffices me. I envy nobody! It is far from universal to envy.
    ==============================


    I think the last commandment is really hard for any human being to boast that they have not coveted.

    If we could check with all your relatives and neighbers and past teachers and employers and/or employees could they all vouch for you that you have never once in your life coveted ?

    Have you ever looked at your chess scores and envied the scores of someone who just whipped your head at a game of chess ?
  6. Wat?
    Joined
    16 Aug '05
    Moves
    76863
    08 Feb '11 12:15
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]===========================
    Speak for yourself.
    =======================


    I am speaking for myself. You don't think I can speak for anyone else on this too?

    ============================
    I have never coveted. I have always created what I have, from what I have, to get to where I am at and what I have.
    ============================ ...[text shortened]... ess scores and envied the scores of someone who just whipped your head at a game of chess ?
    How can you assume to say you are 'sure' that I have looked at others in envy?

    Maybe I conceive that they look at me in envy, because I do not envy.

    Work? I was my own MD and company owner. Why would I look at employees I have given opportunity to with envy?

    Sure you can speak for others, but ultimately it is only 'your' opinion when you comment, or believe you comment, for them. 😉

    I'm pretty sure family, school, University and work history would vouch that I'm a content guy who has/has had no need to envy others.

    Why do you think it is necessary for one to covet? Are you that unhappy with what others have? Have you had a bad deal in life?

    I'm the kind of guy who could fall into a toilet and come back up with a gold chain.
    It's happened, relatively always, for most of my life. I have no need to covet. My lot is perfectly balanced and warrants no envy of others. I care for others, but I don't envy anybody.

    If I get beaten, I applause - don't envy. I congratulate - don't perspire. I like others to succeed - don't ponder. I am happy to accept my imperfections - not want to hold failure as something so simple as a game of chess, or failing other people.

    -m.
  7. Joined
    02 Aug '06
    Moves
    12622
    08 Feb '11 13:14
    Originally posted by mikelom
    How can you assume to say you are 'sure' that I have looked at others in envy?

    Maybe I conceive that they look at me in envy, because I do not envy.

    Work? I was my own MD and company owner. Why would I look at employees I have given opportunity to with envy?

    Sure you can speak for others, but ultimately it is only 'your' opinion when you comment, or ...[text shortened]... d failure as something so simple as a game of chess, or failing other people.

    -m.
    =========================
    How can you assume to say you are 'sure' that I have looked at others in envy?
    ========================


    Well, I contemplate the situation of all people. I don't have to know you personally. You may be very fine person, relatively, to someone else.

    But when the Bible says "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" both experience with myself and with everyone I knew is a culpable.

    So I am sure you to come under that evaluation. It is nothing personal. I am not eager to harm your sense of self worth. And that last commandment seems a catchall.

    Ethically speaking Saul (the man who became Paul) was exceedingly ethical and moral even by the standards of the Law of Moses. He was a very strict Pharisee. As a young man he was probably like the ultra orthodox Jews striving all day, everyday to be right according to the law of Moses. Even Paul confesses that coveteousness was in is heart.

    "But sin, seizing the opportunity through the commandment, worked out in me coveting of every kind .." . He had a very high moral standard. Yet he came to realize that coveting of every kind was working in him.

    I don't think Paul coveted anyone's donkey or tent. But in some area of his life, maybe in religious position or enfluence, he envied and coveted. Paul, I think, speaks for all of us sinners.

    He chose the law against coveting to express his exasperation with his enability to keep the law of God in this regard.

    ==============================
    Maybe I conceive that they look at me in envy, because I do not envy.
    ============================


    You mean they covet your perfection ?

    =============================
    Work? I was my own MD and company owner. Why would I look at employees I have given opportunity to with envy?
    ==============================


    How about your competitors ? You never envied the revenue of your competitors ?

    ===========================
    Sure you can speak for others, but ultimately it is only 'your' opinion when you comment, or believe you comment, for them.
    =============================


    You would feel much better if I said all have coveted except mikelom ?

    I am willing to say that mikelom may be less a coveteous man then I have been, perhaps.

    ================================
    I'm pretty sure family, school, University and work history would vouch that I'm a content guy who has/has had no need to envy others.

    Why do you think it is necessary for one to covet? Are you that unhappy with what others have? Have you had a bad deal in life?
    ==================================


    I don't let myself live in that realm because I believe that "God causes all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose."

    It is important to my Christian faith that I believe that God causes all matters, problems, misfortunes and fortunes, mishaps, and even this present conversation,to "work together for good" because I am called according to His eternal purpose.

    My circumstances, whatever they are, are the raw material in which God can accomplish His work to dispense His Spirit into my being conforming me to the image of Christ. All things, everything, God is using for the good of His wroughting Christ into me.

    So, I excercize myself to give thanks and rejoice in all situations, for this is the pathway to spiritual growth. Of course I am not going to tell you that I do not at times succumb to the temptation of grumbling or anxiety. I do. I am weak in that regard.

    But I have a Person within me, deep in my spirit, Jesus the Son of God. And He has overcome the world. He is victorious. So I plug into Him. That is the Christian life, to abide in Christ and let Him abide in us.

    I gave the illustration before about the porcelan vases in a shop which were all thrown to the floor because of an earthquake. Some were broken in 100 pieces. Some were broken in 50 pieces. Some were broken in 10 pieces. Some were broken in 3 pieces. And some were broken into two nice pieces. But they were all broken.

    Those broken in 10 pieces were happy. They said "Well, at least I am not like this poor guy over here who is broken in 30 pieces." And some who were broken into two nice pieces considered that they were better then the rest. "We are only broken into two neat pieces."

    But they were all broken and in need of replacement.

    When I meet self righteous people it is like this. The Bible says that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" some protest. Relatively, they consider that they are not as bad of sinners as someone else. Maybe so. But they have the same sin nature in them and they have sinned.

    They also have "fallen short of the glory of God". Jesus Christ was not just good. Jesus was good in a glorious way, in a way full of extraordinary splendour, excellence - radiantly good in a wonderful way. That is why there no one in history more revered then Jesus Christ.

    You may be good. But you are not gloriously and wonderfully good like the Son of God. So we all need the Savior for forgiveness and justification before God.

    ==============================
    I'm the kind of guy who could fall into a toilet and come back up with a gold chain.
    It's happened, relatively always, for most of my life. I have no need to covet. My lot is perfectly balanced and warrants no envy of others. I care for others, but I don't envy anybody.
    ============================


    Maybe as a one of the porcelan vessals you see yourself only broken into two pieces compared to the others.

    =========================
    If I get beaten, I applause - don't envy. I congratulate - don't perspire. I like others to succeed - don't ponder. I am happy to accept my imperfections - not want to hold failure as something so simple as a game of chess, or failing other people.
    ===========================


    I am a pretty good sport too. But I have coveted. I have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I am really only good for the lake of fire. I want to stand before God clothed in the redemption of Jesus Christ.

    My only boast before God will be iof Jesus Christ. I stand upon His merit. I know no other stand. And anything pleasing to God in my being has been wrought into me by the grace of Christ.

    Here I have peace, to know that Christ is my legacy, my history, my merit before God. I stand clothed in Christ my glorious dress.

    The thought of trying to stand before an eternally righteous God boasting in the outcome of my sin ruined nature is a nightmare to me. Thankfully, a deeper realization is that Jesus Christ is my salvation and eternal redemption and my life.
  8. Wat?
    Joined
    16 Aug '05
    Moves
    76863
    08 Feb '11 13:48
    You have absolutely no argument or evidence to assume I have coveted.

    If you believe I have, then you may as well just accuse me of not honouring my father and mother, assume I have killed somebody, had a good time with my neighbour's wife, been unfaithful to my own wife, and so on. That's incredibly obnoxious of you, and bears so much unfruitfulness I am beginning to have demerital thoughts about further reading your posts.

    -m.
  9. Joined
    02 Aug '06
    Moves
    12622
    08 Feb '11 14:122 edits
    Originally posted by mikelom
    You have absolutely no argument or evidence to assume I have coveted.

    If you believe I have, then you may as well just accuse me of not honouring my father and mother, assume I have killed somebody, had a good time with my neighbour's wife, been unfaithful to my own wife, and so on. That's incredibly obnoxious of you, and bears so much unfruitfulness I am beginning to have demerital thoughts about further reading your posts.

    -m.
    =========================
    You have absolutely no argument or evidence to assume I have coveted.
    ==============================


    Now you didn't answer my questions. That is okay. It is personal matters.

    So I may have no evidence. That is true.
    But I do have an argument.


    ===============================
    If you believe I have, then you may as well just accuse me of not honouring my father and mother, assume I have killed somebody, had a good time with my neighbour's wife, been unfaithful to my own wife, and so on. That's incredibly obnoxious of you, and bears so much unfruitfulness I am beginning to have demerital thoughts about further reading your posts.
    ===================================


    My discussion here with you is not at all to damage, hurt, or harm you. It is not even to accuse you.

    If you feel it is unfair for me to mention you personally, I will be talk about myself. But in some regards by doing so I imply all other men as well. Maybe not in all regards can I speak for all others. But in some regards I can.

    Jesus highened the moral commandments and made them even more penetrating and exposing. For example:

    "You have heard that it was said, You shall not commit adultery. But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman in order to lust ater her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matt. 5:28)

    We're finished guys. We don't realize to what degree man has fallen since the sin of Adam. We probably have no concept of what perfect self control in a man would be like. We don't realize how it was that it could be said of Jesus "This is my beloved Son in Whom I have My delight."

    "You have heard that it was said to the ancients, You shall not murder, and whoever murders shall be liable to the judgment.

    But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Raca, shall be liable to the [judgment of ] the Sandedrin; and whoever says, Moreh, shall be liable to the Gehenna of fire." (Matt. 5:21,22)


    These are expressions of anger and contempt like "Knuckle Head!", "Moron!", "You Idiot!", "Hey Clown!", "Dunce!", etc.

    Jesus said these expressions of denouncing your fellow man as worthless and contemptible is puttng the speaker in danger of hell.

    It is easy to speak even to a naughty child this way let alone someone in traffic who has cut you off and aroused your irritation.

    You can listen to the radio and call someone you disagree with a name. You can react angerily on the Internet, and anonymously shout a contemptible name at him.

    Jesus Christ was well pleasing to God the Father, not only in the outward action, but constantly in the inner motive, spontaneously in the thought life, imagination, inclination, He was perfect.

    This is why in the Old Testament typology you not only have the rosting of the lamb or cattle's body on the altar. The priests had all kinds of instructions what to do with the fat around the kidneys, the liver, the inward parts. I use to be baffled as to what all this detail meant.

    Then it occured to me that the Son of God was entirely holy and pleasing to God even down to the minutest inward imagination, emotion, thought life, intention, etc. Without and as well as deep within He was PERFECT and gloriously so.

    And the amazing thing is that God pronounces this to the world as normal. This is what God meant by MAN. Christ the Son of God is not an enigma. He is what God intended by mankind. He is normality.

    It is we fallen sinners who do not realize to what degree we have fallen into iniquity and transgressions and sins. So we need forgiveness and justication in Christ's sacrifice for us.
  10. Wat?
    Joined
    16 Aug '05
    Moves
    76863
    08 Feb '11 14:44
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]=========================
    You have absolutely no argument or evidence to assume I have coveted.
    ==============================


    Now you didn't answer my questions. That is okay. It is personal matters.

    So I may have no evidence. That is true.
    But I do have an argument.


    ===============================
    If ...[text shortened]... ns. So we need forgiveness and justication in Christ's sacrifice for us.
    I did not reply to you with any anger, resentment or other words you introduced.

    You did say when you refer to yourself that you refer to all other men.

    I beggar in disbelief at this statement.

    You say you have an argument. Not with me involved you don't. You know not of me.

    I respond not to the driver who cuts me up, and as a teacher I certainly do not think children are naughty - pending age.

    I don't either consider myself to be fallen, or a sinner.

    I hurt nobody, and keep love and appreciation as an objective. People abuse, and I purely sympathise for their ignorance and lack of chance to learn, or think wisely.

    -m.
  11. Joined
    02 Aug '06
    Moves
    12622
    08 Feb '11 14:571 edit
    Originally posted by mikelom
    I did not reply to you with any anger, resentment or other words you introduced.

    You did say when you refer to yourself that you refer to all other men.

    I beggar in disbelief at this statement.

    You say you have an argument. Not with me involved you don't. You know not of me.

    I respond not to the driver who cuts me up, and as a teacher I certainly d I purely sympathise for their ignorance and lack of chance to learn, or think wisely.

    -m.
    ==========================
    I did not reply to you with any anger, resentment or other words you introduced.
    ==============================


    I didn't say you did. I was making a point about how Christ heightened even more the morality of the ten commandments.

    Please do not fall into a mode where everything I write is now personal to you.

    ==============================
    You did say when you refer to yourself that you refer to all other men.

    I beggar in disbelief at this statement.
    ===================================


    In this area one may be stronger and another weaker. In that area this one may be more capable and another less capable.

    But we have all sinned. I am not going to change my view on that. You can stagger and fall flat on the floor.

    All have sinned. And I think all have commited the sin breaking the commandment "You shall not covet."
  12. Wat?
    Joined
    16 Aug '05
    Moves
    76863
    08 Feb '11 15:08
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b I think all have commited the sin breaking the commandment "You shall not covet."[/b]
    I kindly leave you to your thoughts.

    -m.
  13. Joined
    02 Aug '06
    Moves
    12622
    08 Feb '11 15:12
    Originally posted by mikelom
    I kindly leave you to your thoughts.

    -m.
    And I have prayed for you that in the next 24 hours God will show you that you do indeed sometimes covet.

    Like everybody else. Good day sir.
  14. Joined
    02 Aug '06
    Moves
    12622
    08 Feb '11 15:521 edit
    ===============================
    and continue to maintain massive artifactual wealth, versus what they preach within the heart.

    Why would they want to 'own' the land, and not share it with the community they believe in?

    Did gods survey, and decide to tell their followers to abide by land, look after it, as party to their wanton requirement, in order to amass wealth, because of their fear of loss of followers?

    I believe religions amass wealth, via land and gold and other assets, purely to maintain beliefs that instil fear of a god, heaven and hell, into their followers.

    Pretty poor show, if you ask me.
    ================================


    But no coveting of the land and the wealth ? No anger that religious folks do not share the land, the gold, the assets, and the wealth ?

    But you are above coveting ?
  15. Standard memberRBHILL
    Acts 13:48
    California
    Joined
    21 May '03
    Moves
    223256
    08 Feb '11 15:55
    Originally posted by mikelom
    Speak for yourself.

    I have never coveted. I have always created what I have, from what I have, to get to where I am at and what I have.

    I have never envied. (You use the word 'jealous' - where the true meaning of jealous is not knowing the outcome of if something will happen or not.) 'Envy' is the true word for what you mean to say.

    Therefore, it is ...[text shortened]... and be at a level which suffices me. I envy nobody! It is far from universal to envy.

    -m.
    If you ever to a toy out of another kids had when you were a child then you coveted.
Back to Top