06 Mar 08
Would anyone here consider it unreasonable to suggest that a truly loving God should never have created life in the first place? By the very act of creating a being that he knows will not worship or believe in him he effectively condems them to an eternity of torture if we are to assume Christianity correct. Any argument about free will is irrelevant. We havn't given been given a choice about whether we wish to choose or not. The act of creating us forces us to choose one way or the other. So God creates people that he knows will go to hell. What is the point in this? Why not leave them in the eternal oblivion of non existance? And why should we not have a choice in whether our awarness continues after our death?
If we accept Christianity then life is an insignifacant blip compared to the enternity of death. Therefore God creates some beings he knows will spend enternity in bliss and some that will spend eternity in hell. If I was to end up in hell I'd much prefer to never have existed.
06 Mar 08
Originally posted by Jake EllisonIt's reasonable to say that.
Would anyone here consider it unreasonable to suggest that a truly loving God should never have created life in the first place? By the very act of creating a being that he knows will not worship or believe in him he effectively condems them to an eternity of torture if we are to assume Christianity correct. Any argument about free will is irrelevant. W ...[text shortened]... will spend eternity in hell. If I was to end up in hell I'd much prefer to never have existed.
All that heaven/hell/sin/free will talk is so outdated it makes me sick someone actually believes it. How naive people are?
06 Mar 08
Originally posted by Jake EllisonEternal Hell is the ultimate scare tactic. If you can get them to believe out of fear, they probably won't notice the logical flaws.
Would anyone here consider it unreasonable to suggest that a truly loving God should never have created life in the first place? By the very act of creating a being that he knows will not worship or believe in him he effectively condems them to an eternity of torture if we are to assume Christianity correct. Any argument about free will is irrelevant. W ...[text shortened]... will spend eternity in hell. If I was to end up in hell I'd much prefer to never have existed.
06 Mar 08
1 edit
Originally posted by Jake EllisonGod is like your Dad viewed from age 4. All-powerful, all-knowing. Truly loving? Of course -- until you do something wrong and then he is VERY, VERY ANGRYðŸ˜
Would anyone here consider it unreasonable to suggest that a truly loving God should never have created life in the first place? By the very act of creating a being that he knows will not worship or believe in him he effectively condems them to an eternity of torture if we are to assume Christianity correct. Any argument about free will is irrelevant. W will spend eternity in hell. If I was to end up in hell I'd much prefer to never have existed.
But eventually, he forgives you, of course.
Of course your worship Him. Of course you believe in Him.
Is it possible that your parents would withdraw their love? Yes -- almost unimaginable, but yes. What Hell that would be. On the other hand if they always loved you and took care of you, wouldn't that be Heaven?
Of course, things never carry on that way forever. One day, about age 18, we eat of the fruit, discover sex, and get thrown out of the house -- the kids have to leave and make it on their own. THAT's when we discover the true sorrows of existence.
Christianity is not about some supernatural phenomenon. It's about understanding who We are. That's what all religions are about. That's why interpreting religion as either literally true or absolutely false and worthless are just two (opposite) ways of misunderstanding what it is all about.
06 Mar 08
Originally posted by spruce112358My dad never drowned almost the entire population of the earth. He never killed a bunch of Egyptians either. Come to think of it, my dad seems like a pretty even tempered guy compared to your god.
God is like your Dad viewed from age 4. All-powerful, all-knowing. Truly loving? Of course -- until you do something wrong and then he is VERY, VERY ANGRYðŸ˜
But eventually, he forgives you, of course.
Of course your worship Him. Of course you believe in Him.
Is it possible that your parents would withdraw their love? Yes -- almost unimaginable, ...[text shortened]... false and worthless are just two (opposite) ways of misunderstanding what it is all about.
06 Mar 08
Originally posted by Jake EllisonYes. I've been through that argument several times on these board. So far few Christians have really been able to grasp it.
Would anyone here consider it unreasonable to suggest that a truly loving God should never have created life in the first place? By the very act of creating a being that he knows will not worship or believe in him he effectively condems them to an eternity of torture if we are to assume Christianity correct. Any argument about free will is irrelevant. W ...[text shortened]... will spend eternity in hell. If I was to end up in hell I'd much prefer to never have existed.
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by rwingettLiteralism. I recognize that.
My dad never drowned almost the entire population of the earth. He never killed a bunch of Egyptians either. Come to think of it, my dad seems like a pretty even tempered guy compared to your god.
It's allegorical.
I once read a rather interesting account of Moses as a military commander and what the parting of the Red Sea might have signified -- Egyptian chariots getting mired in a swampy area of the Sinai. Pure speculation, but interesting.
07 Mar 08
1 edit
Originally posted by EcstremeVenomFrightening that a 12 year old should have to figure that out.
most places in the u.s. nowadays, its about 12 😕
Religion is about Inner Space, not Outer Space. It's about how are you going to order YOUR life
(Note to the Vatican: it is NOT about how to order the lives of those around you! That's politics. Play it if you want, but don't call it religion.)
Religion can be quite a useful thing, psychologically.
Of course, historically and even today, a lot of people are more comfortable with a certain level of mysticism incorporated into their religion. It is a link back to those childlike days before rationality set in and the world became hard and serious. It can be very good to have that mindset -- kids are so much more resilient than adults, heal so much more quickly, have so much more energy, etc. -- as long as you dial it to the level that doesn't interfere with your rational half. For example, I actually like that I cannnot prove or disprove that the Inner Voice I hear when I meditate is God or my subconscious. It might be either, and that is where I let the matter drop.
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by Jake EllisonA very good question. Just to clarify the bit that I would love to see some theists answer:
Why not leave them in the eternal oblivion of non existance? And why should we not have a choice in whether our awarness continues after our death?
I realize that entry into heaven for a terrible soul like mine is questionable, but if God is omnipotent and loving, is he capable of terminating our existence before entry to hell? If so, why does he not do so?
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by rwingettThat is a strawman. You see, if God exists, then killing, especially when committed by God is not necessarily a bad thing. Also, almost all death can be laid at Gods feet (except possibly suicide or murder which is why God frowns on them) and thus it is unnecessary and misleading to quote particular examples from the Bible that are only horrendous when viewed from the perspective of an analogy where God is a human being.
My dad never drowned almost the entire population of the earth. He never killed a bunch of Egyptians either. Come to think of it, my dad seems like a pretty even tempered guy compared to your god.
If heaven exists, and is really a more pleasurable place than the earth then the younger and less painfully you die the better.
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by Jake EllisonLet's see if I have this straight. You understand the choice that you have (i.e., between God's system and any other system), you understand the results of both choices and yet your altruistic nature has somehow transcended even God's love--- so concerned are you for the nameless countless masses--- that you have no choice BUT to reject God's system on account of your superior-to-His sense of love.
Would anyone here consider it unreasonable to suggest that a truly loving God should never have created life in the first place? By the very act of creating a being that he knows will not worship or believe in him he effectively condems them to an eternity of torture if we are to assume Christianity correct. Any argument about free will is irrelevant. W ...[text shortened]... will spend eternity in hell. If I was to end up in hell I'd much prefer to never have existed.
It is highly doubtful that the lunacy involved in such illogical thinking--- rife with boneheaded assumptions and warped values--- will be evident to you anytime soon. But, you heard it here first: you are wrong on practically every point other than spelling. Even there you failed, only not as much.