A woman's place

Originally posted by divegeester
No, Eve "sinned" but Adam was held responsible for what we are all experiencing.


*edit not my thumb down btw

My reason for writing my opinion on it is that yes, Eve sinned, but Adam paid the price. Well, so did Eve. She paid a higher price, given that she gave us all the pain of childbirth and the continual "second class citizen" status that bringing the fruit to Adam precipitated. And he sinned too, but Eve holds man's contempt for bringing him the fruit.

Originally posted by Suzianne
My reason for writing my opinion on it is that yes, Eve sinned, but Adam paid the price. Well, so did Eve. She paid a higher price, given that she gave us all the pain of childbirth and the continual "second class citizen" status that bringing the fruit to Adam precipitated. And he sinned too, but Eve holds man's contempt for bringing him the fruit.

its a distortion of the reality, read the scriptures, Eve was intellectually seduced, Adam
consented and deliberately sinned, his crime is worse.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no, Eve was intellectually seduced, Adam deliberately sinned.

She couldn't even claim "ignorance of the law" though.

She knew she was not to eat of the fruit. Yes, she was talked into it, but she knew better. This is why women are considered the "weaker" sex, by men. Similarly, Adam only ate of the fruit because Eve brought it to him.

Or so the thinking goes that institutionalizes treating women as "less than men".

Originally posted by Suzianne
She couldn't even claim "ignorance of the law" though.

She knew she was not to eat of the fruit. Yes, she was talked into it, but she knew better. This is why women are considered the "weaker" sex, by men. Similarly, Adam only ate of the fruit because Eve brought it to him.

Or so the thinking goes that institutionalizes treating woman as "less than men".

ill need to speak on this later, but it is clear that there was an appeal made to Eves
intellect, Paul states that she was , intellectually seduced, tricked, Adam on the other
hand, fully consented in a deliberate act of rebellion. Adam was a pansy, he tried to
blame his Mrs, 'it was the women that you gave me', he should have stood up and
admitted it. I have always understood the term weaker sex to mean more fragile, ie to
be treated more delicately, i have ever linked the idea with being emotionally or
intellectually weaker, physically yes, but then again, its not always the case.

Originally posted by Suzianne
This bit of arrogance right here is one reason I tend to look down upon atheists. Or at least have a motivation to do so. You don't like the doctrine, so you stand on your soapbox and claim "but *I* haven't sinned!"

I mean God forbid that He should actually hold you responsible for your sin. How DARE He accuse you? This is the ONLY reason you see it ...[text shortened]... .

So you make it all up that God is fictional because He DARES to accuse YOU of sin.

Oh good grief I thought you at least had managed to grasp this.


I do not, and have never for one moment, believe that your god or any god is real.

Period.

I think the bible is a collection of badly written fairy tales, and over simplistic and
usually wrong moral parables.

I don't think that JC ever actually existed, and if he did he was nothing like the myth in the bible.



As I have explained many many many times before I AM A SKEPTIC and as such don't believe ANYTHING
based on faith.

I only believe things based on evidence and as you admit you don't have any.

Thus I don't believe in your god's existence because I am a skeptic and not because i don't like your god.

The fact that I think the god described in your holy book is an abomination doesn't in any way influence my
view on your god's existence.

I think Hitler and Stalin were abominations, while at the same time I am quite convinced they existed.


If you had evidence to justify belief in your gods existence I would believe that it existed.


I would at that point start planning how to destroy it.


So now we have dealt with (for the last time please) this idiotic accusation that I don't believe in your god because I
don't like it lets move on to your other.... um... points.



Sin is going against the wishes of god/s.

I go against the wishes of your fictional god all the time.... like for example all the times that I say that your god doesn't exist...

Oh look I just sinned...

However as I have made clear... THERE ARE NO GODS.

Thus the concept of sin is really pointless and stupid (as well as downright immoral).
The concept of sin is meaningless without the god to sin against.


Now if you want to talk about morality that's a different matter (and subject).

Which is the point.

YOU care about sin.
I care about morality.

They are not the same thing.


Now have you grasped this this time so I wont have to explain it to you again?

Originally posted by googlefudge
Original sin is one of Christianities most disturbing and down right F***ed up ideas.

People are NOT responsible for the actions of their parents. Period.

They are especially not responsible for the actions of non-existent FICTIONAL parents.


An awful lot of modern day sexism and the trouble women have in society and the
workforce are due to ...[text shortened]... .


THIS is one of the things that you can list under the "what harm does it do?" category.

Inheritance is the practice of passing on property, titles, debts, rights and obligations upon the death of an individual. It represents also to pass a characteristic, genetically. It has long played an important role in human societies. The rules of inheritance differ between societies and have changed over time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inheritance

Originally posted by googlefudge
Oh good grief I thought you at least had managed to grasp this.


I do not, and have never for one moment, believe that your god or any god is real.

Period.

I think the bible is a collection of badly written fairy tales, and over simplistic and
usually wrong moral parables.

I don't think that JC ever actually existed, and if he did he was n ...[text shortened]...


Now have you grasped this this time so I wont have to explain it to you again?

You believe Hitler and Stalin existed based on faith. 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
[b]Inheritance is the practice of passing on property, titles, debts, rights and obligations upon the death of an individual. It represents also to pass a characteristic, genetically. It has long played an important role in human societies. The rules of inheritance differ between societies and have changed over time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inheritance[/b]

I know what inheritance means.

What I am unclear on is what the hell your post has to do with what I wrote.

Simply cutting and pasting the a definition of a random word doesn't constitute a
thought out, relevant, and meaningful response.

Originally posted by RJHinds
You believe Hitler and Stalin existed based on faith. 😏

No based on evidence.

There is an enormous amount of evidence that they existed.

And to head you off at the pass, the evidence required to justify belief the existence
of Hitler and Stalin is nowhere near as much as that required for a supernatural figure
as the existence of evil dictators is not extraordinary.

Ordinary claims require ordinary evidence.

Extraordinary claims require ordinary evidence.

Interestingly, Christianity isn't the only religion that blames a woman for the problems of mankind. Pandora's Box is another story that comes to mind, which is similar. Pandora opened a forbidden box, because just like Eve, she was curious. However, opening the box released all types of evil and hardships into the world, just like eating the fruit did in the garden.

I'm sure there are other legends of women bringing down the fall of mankind, due to their own naive nature. Christianity seems to be just one of many religions that believes women are easily deceived.

Originally posted by vivify
Interestingly, Christianity isn't the only religion that blames a woman for the problems of mankind. Pandora's Box is another story that comes to mind, which is similar. Pandora opened a forbidden box, because just like Eve, she was curious. However, opening the box released all types of evil and hardships into the world, just like eating the fruit did in ...[text shortened]... Christianity seems to be just one of many religions that believes women are easily deceived.

Agreed. You have a good point there.

I'm sure Islam and Judaism are similar, by virtue of the fact that they're all Abrahamic religions.

Originally posted by Suzianne
We're all still paying for Eve's transgression, is what it boils down to.

But didn't Christ already die for all our sins ? 🙄

Originally posted by googlefudge
I know what inheritance means.

What I am unclear on is what the hell your post has to do with what I wrote.

Simply cutting and pasting the a definition of a random word doesn't constitute a
thought out, relevant, and meaningful response.

You really don't get the connection between the orignal sin of our parents, Adam and Eve, in the inheritance that we receive from them?

Originally posted by googlefudge
No based on evidence.

There is an enormous amount of evidence that they existed.

And to head you off at the pass, the evidence required to justify belief the existence
of Hitler and Stalin is nowhere near as much as that required for a supernatural figure
as the existence of evil dictators is not extraordinary.

Ordinary claims require ordinary evidence.

Extraordinary claims require ordinary evidence.

So you are saying that you accept ordinary evidence by faith for the existence of Hitler and Stalin, but that you will not accept ordinary evidence of the existence of Jesus.

You also will not accept the extraordinary evidence of the existence of Jesus, so stop lying.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
But didn't Christ already die for all our sins ? 🙄

Not for yours. Only for us who believe on Him. 😏

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!