abortion

Originally posted by Nemesio
Those weren't my words, but LemonJello's.

Nemesio

I know. My mistake.

Originally posted by Nemesio
Ivanhoe:

Where is your definition of individual that you said was coming?

Nemesio

I'm on a long quest to prove the zygote is a human person and if my memory serves me well I told you I was looking for a way to prove the zygote has a unique identity ..... Right ?

By the way, don't hold your breath ..... it is a rather long quest ... maybe too long.

Originally posted by no1marauder
To you, no. To the carrying case (i.e. pregnant woman) who's right to self-autonomy you would destroy, it's the heart of the matter.

I'm not destroying anything, the life inside, that will be destroyed.
My goal, isn't to take away anyone's right to self-autonomy as
you suggest, but to show that the life being destroyed with a
successful abortion is a human life, it is simply a human being at
its earliest stage of development, that should be valued by the
one making the choice to destroy it. So I'd wish you would stop
claiming I'm out to do that, as you have accussed me of several
times.
Kelly

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
I don't see a precedent for this type of hysterical over-criminalization of even the slightest of neglectful/harmful behaviors by parents towards their children. For example, we aren't hauling parents to jail because they refuse to vaccinate their children, even though there is a risk of illness or even death from disease. If we agree that the curre ...[text shortened]... fear those same rights being applied to a fetus, if they were deemed human beings by the state?

First of all, you are incorrect; vaccination is mandatory in my and most states and a failure to vaccinate could lead to criminal charges. Second of all, the fact that ANYTHING that the carrying case (i.e. pregnant woman) does has a direct physical effect on the fetus-human differentiates the case from the normal situation. This would require more intrusive and aggressive legislation to protect the "rights" of the fetus-human.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Brainless parrot.

As you complained to me that I accused you of something you did not
say, I'm asking you for the same treatment. Either show me where I
said the things you have accused me of, or admit it wasn't there. I
understand your need to call people names, it is a weakness you
seem to carry; however, how about to holding yourself to the same
standards you hold others too? Are you above that? It seems like
instead of getting a strait answer from you on something you held me
too, all I get from you is your name calling tirades. Granted it is
typical of the way you act, and I sort of expect it of you. I would hope
that since you seem to like to keep the record strait on what you say,
and what others say you said, why not apply that to yourself too? A
little do on to others as you would have them do unto you, if you
subscribe to that notion if you please?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
As you complained to me that I accused you of something you did not
say, I'm asking you for the same treatment. Either show me where I
said the things you have accused me of, or admit it wasn't there. I
understand your need to call people names, it is a weakness you
seem to carry; however, how about to holding yourself to the same
standards you hold ...[text shortened]... hers as you would have them do unto you, if you
subscribe to that notion if you please?
Kelly

Answer my questions, fool or shut up. I gave you a straight answer to your idiotic question last page.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Answer my questions, fool or shut up. I gave you a straight answer to your idiotic question last page.

I guess you do have different standards for yourself and the rest of
the world.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I guess you do have different standards for yourself and the rest of
the world.
Kelly

Answer the following questions, parrot:

1) Do human beings have fundamental rights that no government can legitimately usurp?;

2) If so, was Roe v. Wade correctly decided? If it was not correctly decided, why not?

I've answered both these questions many times here, so no double standard there, Polly.

Originally posted by no1marauder
First of all, you are incorrect; vaccination is mandatory in my and most states and a failure to vaccinate could lead to criminal charges. Second of all, the fact that ANYTHING that the carrying case (i.e. pregnant woman) does has a direct physical effect on the fetus-human differentiates the case from the normal situation. This would require more intrusive and aggressive legislation to protect the "rights" of the fetus-human.

The law apparently has no teeth; it's possible in some states to request exemption to forced vaccination due to medical, religious, or philosophical (!) reasons. (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RS21414.pdf) page 3.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
The law apparently has no teeth; it's possible in some states to request exemption to forced vaccination due to medical, religious, or philosophical (!) reasons. (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RS21414.pdf) page 3.

True enough. Point? You still might find yourself facing an endangering the welfare of a child charge if you don't get such an exemption.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Answer the following questions, parrot:

1) Do human beings have fundamental rights that no government can legitimately usurp?;

2) If so, was Roe v. Wade correctly decided? If it was not correctly decided, why not?

I've answered both these questions many times here, so no double standard there, Polly.

I can see how simply talking to me brings out something in you that
isn't pretty. You cannot follow a discussion, you insist on calling me
names, and it is beyond you it seems to treat me as I have attempted
to treat you. You accused me of something, I asked you to retract
because I never said anything like what you accused me of, and I
would almost be willing to be you have not clue what I have asked
you to take back too. You are simply not interested in how you have
treated me, only that you want to talk about what it is you want to
talk about.
.
You continue to spew your point about the government taking power,
when none of my arguments had anything to do with anyone taking
anything from anyone. I even said, you can for all I care leave all the
laws intact; change nothing they don't matter as far as I was concern,
they didn't do what I wanted. You don't seem to be able to grasp that.
You have your blinders on; your hate speech is flowing and you more
than likely still cannot see the tree for the forest. I feel for you,
someone so hateful cannot have a happy life in my opinion, your hate
more than likely just eats away at you since you were not designed to
carry such a thing. I wouldn’t be surprised if you spend much of your
time yelling at those people around you too, and I’d be willing to bet
when they try to talk to you, what they say goes in one ear and out the
other.

As far your two points you have answered over and over, good for you
no1, glad to see you are spot on with the points you were talking
about. They were not the points I was talking about, but as you have
made it quite clear, you are not interested in what anyone says, you
can and do speak your mind, I have also found you can and do
speak for others too, you are gifted in telling us what we are saying
so you can accuse of things you find offensive. I’m not clear why you
bother joining us on these boards to tell you the truth, you seem to
be able to handle talking for yourself and for everyone else too, you
don’t need us. You should get your own board so you can talk for us
all and solve the world ills, but I'd bet you would get mad there too.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I can see how simply talking to me brings out something in you that
isn't pretty. You cannot follow a discussion, you insist on calling me
names, and it is beyond you it seems to treat me as I have attempted
to treat you. You accused me of something, I asked you to retract
because I never said anything like what you accused me of, and I
would almost b ...[text shortened]... can talk for us
all and solve the world ills, but I'd bet you would get mad there too.
Kelly

LMFAO! Instead of writing three paragraphs of self-pitying drivel, why don't you just answer the questions?

Originally posted by no1marauder
LMFAO! Instead of writing three paragraphs of self-pitying drivel, why don't you just answer the questions?

I told you, I'm not interested in how or why the laws of man are setup
the way they are with regard to abortion, they do not stop abortions.
The only reason abortions occur is because the human life within
each woman has been rationalized to a meaningless blob carrying no
value at all, with some the blob gets meaning and value at birth, with
others it is some time inside, it is just an arbitrary assignment people
give to justify their stance on ending those lives. As they view the
universe they think we have the right to cut human life short to
satisfy some right or need they or others have. It is nothing new,
people have been ending lives for various reasons throughout history,
and all of them felt justified in their rational as I'm sure you do too.

I guess you choose to ignore my request for not misrepresenting my
views after you cried about my doing the same to you. It isn't self-pity,
it was asking you to not be a hypocrite, but I suppose that will be lost
on you too.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I told you, I'm not interested in how or why the laws of man are setup
the way they are with regard to abortion, they do not stop abortions.
The only reason abortions occur is because the human life within
each woman has been rationalized to a meaningless blob carrying no
value at all, with some the blob gets meaning and value at birth, with
others it ...[text shortened]... y,
it was asking you to not be a hypocrite, but I suppose that will be lost
on you too.
Kelly

Do you believe that people have fundamental rights that no government can legitimately take away? Yes or no? You've written your moralistic blatherings over and over and over again; we get it "people are doing things KellyJay thinks are wrong because we're an evil, depraved race, and if we would just listen to the great wisdom of KellyJay and do everything KellyJay thinks is morally correct the world would be a swell place." It's tiresome for someone to merely parrot the same thing; why don't you attempt to actually discuss the issues rather than pontificate?