Originally posted by ZahlanziIf Abraham failed the test, then exactly *what* are these "horrors" you speak of?
abraham failed his test
he was asked by a benevolent god, a god he knew to be benevolent and a god doesn't want killing, to kill his son. and he agreed. that's fail.
the bible speaks of his awesome faith when it should be speaking about the horrors blind faith can bring to being.
The angels stayed Abraham's hand. No "horrors". His faith was justified.
He was ready to obey his God. His faith gave him the courage to understand God had his reasons for asking this. He did not fail his faith. He did not fail God.
Originally posted by Suzianneno, he didn't fail his faith. he failed his humanity and his reason. he proved that he was just another blind, obedient tool ready to follow any command of his perceived master, no matter how obscene or demented.
If Abraham failed the test, then exactly *what* are these "horrors" you speak of?
The angels stayed Abraham's hand. No "horrors". His faith was justified.
He was ready to obey his God. His faith gave him the courage to understand God had his reasons for asking this. He did not fail his faith. He did not fail God.
Originally posted by menace71the monstrous association comes not from the act, but from the willingness to act.
First point everyone says what a monstrous act Abraham committed. Abraham never finished the act and the mercy of God was the reason. God was using this as a foreshadowing of what he would do for all of mankind in the future. God said to Abraham I will provide the lamb.
Manny
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We don't really know what Abraham was thinking other than is what is written. I believe Abraham feared God but also trusted God. I believe Abraham knew God could resurrect Issac or that he would be in the hands of God at least. Lastly once again it never happened Abraham was spared from even doing this act. People miss the whole point of the story. I don't think Abraham felt happy about preparing to offer his son to God as a sacrifice. God offered His own Son the Lamb!!! That is the point God always provides.
Manny
Originally posted by menace71in actuality, abraham and this entire scenario are likely fictional. it is a story designed with a demented moral which is; do whatever god tells you to do no matter how horrifying it is to your own senses. and this blind obedience is looked upon as a good religious trait. it is reflected upon the actions of the hebrews who went along and did unspeakable horrors under the orders of their mad god.
We don't really know what Abraham was thinking other than is what is written. I believe Abraham feared God but also trusted God. I believe Abraham knew God could resurrect Issac or that he would be in the hands of God at least. Lastly once again it never happened Abraham was spared from even doing this act. People miss the whole point of the story. I don't ...[text shortened]... rifice. God offered His own Son the Lamb!!! That is the point God always provides.
Manny
abraham should've been wise enough to know that no god worthy of worship and respect would demand any kind of life sacrifice, be it animal or plant. he chose his god poorly.
Originally posted by Suziannethis episode has a happy ending. the slaughter of jericho doesn't. the inquisition, the social inequality in the middle ages, the bombings of 9/11, they all come from blind faith. and they don't have a happy ending.
If Abraham failed the test, then exactly *what* are these "horrors" you speak of?
The angels stayed Abraham's hand. No "horrors". His faith was justified.
He was ready to obey his God. His faith gave him the courage to understand God had his reasons for asking this. He did not fail his faith. He did not fail God.
"He was ready to obey his God. His faith gave him the courage to understand God had his reasons for asking this. He did not fail his faith. He did not fail God."
if jesus would ask you to kill your son, would you do it? after what you know about jesus? would you think that maybe it wouldn't be in jesus' character to ask you to kill someone let alone your son? would you think that more likely, jesus is testing you to see if you would risk his wrath to stay true to his own teachings? would you think that more likely, satan is tempting you as he did adam and eve (in which story i think you believe )? would you think it more likely you are halucinating or having a mental breakdown?
there are numerous things to consider. the most important would be: a benevolent god does not want bloodshed. a benevolent god doesn't trick morons into heinous acts just to see if they will do it, which, being omniscient he already knows they will.
Originally posted by wolfgang59How is this worth repeating? Is it factual?
Worth repeating
[b] a benevolent god does not want bloodshed. a benevolent god doesn't trick morons into heinous acts just to see if they will do it, which, being omniscient he already knows they will.[/b]
The God of the Bible, the God of Abraham, was not exactly always benevolent. This same God drowned everyone on earth shortly before this. Is this the benevolent God you assume He is?
Originally posted by Suziannethey're not referring to the bible god, they're referring to a hypothetical benevolent god.
How is this worth repeating? Is it factual?
The God of the Bible, the God of Abraham, was not exactly always benevolent. This same God drowned everyone on earth shortly before this. Is this the benevolent God you assume He is?
Originally posted by ZahlanziOh really? It appears that Zahlanzi was indeed talking about the God of Abraham.
abraham failed his test
he was asked by a benevolent god, a god he knew to be benevolent and a god doesn't want killing, to kill his son. and he agreed. that's fail.
the bible speaks of his awesome faith when it should be speaking about the horrors blind faith can bring to being.
Originally posted by VoidSpirit
they're not referring to the bible god, they're referring to a hypothetical benevolent god.
Originally posted by VoidSpiritYour grandfather and great grandfather are also likely fictional characters
in actuality, abraham and this entire scenario are likely fictional. it is a story designed with a demented moral which is; do whatever god tells you to do no matter how horrifying it is to your own senses. and this blind obedience is looked upon as a good religious trait. it is reflected upon the actions of the hebrews who went along and did unspeakab ...[text shortened]... spect would demand any kind of life sacrifice, be it animal or plant. he chose his god poorly.
and any stories you heard about them have just been made up so you
will obey your parents. But since you know better, it didn't work. Did it?
Originally posted by VoidSpiritI almost missed this.
abraham should've been wise enough to know that no god worthy of worship and respect would demand any kind of life sacrifice, be it animal or plant. he chose his god poorly.
I'll just say that this is "in YOUR opinion". Animal sacrifice had been going on from the time of Cain and Abel up to Abraham's time and it was later codified in the laws Moses handed down from God to the Hebrews.
Originally posted by VoidSpiritYour knowledge of history is somewhat void LOL 🙂 There are Arab tribes today that have the son's of Abraham as their tribal names. I guess they just pulled these names out of their @$$es ? Why would it be fictional? Lastly who said the price for sin was not blood? People always want a flowery God to fit their flowery world view.
in actuality, abraham and this entire scenario are likely fictional. it is a story designed with a demented moral which is; do whatever god tells you to do no matter how horrifying it is to your own senses. and this blind obedience is looked upon as a good religious trait. it is reflected upon the actions of the hebrews who went along and did unspeakab ...[text shortened]... spect would demand any kind of life sacrifice, be it animal or plant. he chose his god poorly.
Manny