1. SubscriberFMF
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    21 Oct '18 09:38
    Do you Christians look at Adam as he is portrayed in the Bible (and the Koran and Torah, for that matter), do you look at what he did, bear in mind the countless thousands of years of suffering that is traced back to his action, and conclude that he is the most "evil" human being who ever lived?
  2. Devonshire
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    21 Oct '18 10:00
    @fmf said
    Do you Christians look at Adam as he is portrayed in the Bible (and the Koran and Torah, for that matter), do you look at what he did, bear in mind the countless thousands of years of suffering that is traced back to his action, and conclude that he is the most "evil" human being who ever lived?
    I don’t view Adam that way at all, but I can imagine that some will do so. Perhaps based on the expanded consequences of the fall.
  3. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    21 Oct '18 10:09
    @fmf said
    Do you Christians look at Adam as he is portrayed in the Bible (and the Koran and Torah, for that matter), do you look at what he did, bear in mind the countless thousands of years of suffering that is traced back to his action, and conclude that he is the most "evil" human being who ever lived?
    that would be logical conclusion for christians who misunderstood the story
  4. SubscriberFMF
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    21 Oct '18 10:45
    @karoly-aczel said
    that would be logical conclusion for christians who misunderstood the story
    Whose story is it? I thought it belonged to the Abrahamic religions.
  5. Standard memberKellyJay
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    21 Oct '18 11:14
    @fmf said
    Do you Christians look at Adam as he is portrayed in the Bible (and the Koran and Torah, for that matter), do you look at what he did, bear in mind the countless thousands of years of suffering that is traced back to his action, and conclude that he is the most "evil" human being who ever lived?
    Who has called him the most evil who has ever lived?
  6. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    21 Oct '18 11:23
    @fmf said
    Do you Christians look at Adam as he is portrayed in the Bible (and the Koran and Torah, for that matter), do you look at what he did, bear in mind the countless thousands of years of suffering that is traced back to his action, and conclude that he is the most "evil" human being who ever lived?
    No, not at all; the Fall was bound to happen. The fall is actually a commentary on the idea that we are free willed people, and that we are all inclined to disobedience, even if only for the excitement and for the easy way in which we are 'seduced' into a perspective.

    Adam & Eve, actualizing their freewill, then are cast out of paradise -- rightfully so, and they must earn their way upon the land, live by the sweat of their brow, and undergo a different form of existence.

    You know, there is even this idea in traditional Christianity that Adam & Eve were like the ultimate humans. They were taller, stronger, more intelligent: the ideal type.

    They are not thought of as particularly evil or wrong.

    Christ is even referred to as the Second Adam. As if Adam is not such a bad parallel, and not some "evil" figure that we have to dwell on.
  7. Devonshire
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    21 Oct '18 11:36
    @philokalia said
    You know, there is even this idea in traditional Christianity that Adam & Eve were like the ultimate humans. They were taller, stronger, more intelligent: the ideal type.
    Here you are going on about intelligence again.

    I’ve never heard of this idea that Adam and Eve where the “ultimate humans”, where do you get that from?

    Where they also Caucasian by any chance?
  8. Standard memberSecondSon
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    21 Oct '18 11:36
    @fmf said
    Do you Christians look at Adam as he is portrayed in the Bible (and the Koran and Torah, for that matter), do you look at what he did, bear in mind the countless thousands of years of suffering that is traced back to his action, and conclude that he is the most "evil" human being who ever lived?
    No.

    Each individual is responsible for their own actions, and will be judged accordingly.
  9. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    21 Oct '18 14:16
    @divegeester said
    Here you are going on about intelligence again.

    I’ve never heard of this idea that Adam and Eve where the “ultimate humans”, where do you get that from?

    Where they also Caucasian by any chance?
    This is a very long article, but it describes in several parts some of the visions of various early Saints like St. Bridget & St. Hildegard and other important Catholic figures that Adam & Eve were exceedingly noble in their looks and the likes.

    http://kolbecenter.org/adam-and-eve-writings-mystical-saints-doctors-church/

    For some reason, similar ideas DO persist in Protestant sects.

    This is a bit different, but Ellen G. White noted this:

    EGW - YES: "As Adam came forth from the hand of his Creator:He was more than twice as tall as men now living upon the earth:Eve was not quite as tall as Adam. Her head reached a little above his shoulders." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3 p.34).

    "Adam's height was much greater than that of men who now inhabit the earth. Eve was somewhat less in stature;" (Patriarchs and Prophets, p.45).

    Note: Not Biblical . The Bible does not tell us the height of Adam and Eve, but Ellen does not leave us in doubt as to their height.

    http://1timothy4-13.com/files/bible/sda_add.html

    I guess some of this also comes from the idea of people living to be 900 years old and the likes., and speculating that they were far larger and superior to us now.

    But yeah, I googled it a bit.

    I based my initial statement off of something I heard from Fr. Ripperger, I believe, who would have based it off of the Saints in the first article.
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    21 Oct '18 14:33
    @kellyjay said
    Who has called him the most evil who has ever lived?
    You are responding to a QUESTION.
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    21 Oct '18 14:391 edit
    @fmf said
    Whose story is it? I thought it belonged to the Abrahamic religions.
    "Original sin" and "the fall" and what they entail for many Christians does not belong to Judaism. The following article should be read in its entirety, but here are a few excerpts:
    http://outreachjudaism.org/original-sin/

    Despite the zealous position missionaries take as they defend this creed, the Christian doctrine of original sin is profoundly hostile to the central teachings of the Jewish Scriptures. The Torah loudly condemns the alien teaching that man is unable to freely choose good over evil, life over death...

    How could the authors of the New Testament reasonably insist that man’s dire condition was hopeless if the Torah unambiguously declared that man possessed an extraordinary ability to remain faithful to God?...

    This staggering problem did not escape the attention of Paul. Bear in mind, the author of Romans and Galatians constructed his most consequential doctrines on the premise that man is utterly depraved, and therefore incapable of saving himself through his own obedience to God...

    Yet, how could Paul harmonize this wayward theology with the Jewish Scriptures in which his teachings were not only unknown, but thoroughly condemned?...

    Employing unparalleled literary manipulation, however, Paul manages to conceal this vexing theological problem with a swipe of his well-worn eraser.
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    21 Oct '18 14:40
    @divegeester said
    Here you are going on about intelligence again.

    I’ve never heard of this idea that Adam and Eve where the “ultimate humans”, where do you get that from?

    Where they also Caucasian by any chance?
    It's what I ask all the time, where is the line between stupid, evil, and insanity?

    I think people are said to be evil if they seem to benefit monetarily from their bad behavior. as where people who don't are either labeled stupid or insane.
  13. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    21 Oct '18 21:22
    @fmf said
    Whose story is it? I thought it belonged to the Abrahamic religions.
    yes and no. its metaphoric.
    It deals with the origins of humans. And you know what I think about where humans came from right?
  14. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    21 Oct '18 21:27
    @whodey said
    It's what I ask all the time, where is the line between stupid, evil, and insanity?

    I think people are said to be evil if they seem to benefit monetarily from their bad behavior. as where people who don't are either labeled stupid or insane.
    And I've answered before: there are people who are evil, who consciously go against that which they know to be right, who consciously inflict harm on others, and then there are those who are ignorant.

    This answer is only sparse but it shows the direction your inquiry should be headed
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