All sins forgiven

Let's put aside this nonsense about "true Christians" and untrue Christians.
The bible refers to Christians who are born again as saints. A saint is one who is filled with holy spirit.
So let's just say you are either a saint or you ain't.
Fair enough?

One of the most foundational tenets of the Christian doctrine is assurance of your salvation.

Acts 2:21
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.'
NKJV

Acts 15:10-11
0 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they."
NKJV

Acts 16:31
So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."
NKJV

Most normal people have a fear of death. But Christian saints should not fear death.
I am not saying we make foolish choices, for we do not look forward to death, and neither do we want to die.
Knowing that no one has left the planet alive, we need to get over the fear of death. It is inevitable.
But how do we overcome this fear? The bible has the answer!

Heb 2:14-15
Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
NKJV

The word destroy is a poor translation. If you look it up, it more accurately should have been "ineffective"

Jesus made ineffective this stranglehold the devil held over people which was the fear of death. But God who is rich in mercy made this weapon of Satan ineffective by assuring the saints of their salvation.

Rom 5:9-11
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
NKJV
Eph 2:4-9
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
NKJV

Whether they know it or not, those who preach loss of salvation are ministers of Satan, trying to deceive the elect with fear, and making God look like a Taskmaster.

Christians (saints) should walk in confidence knowing they are secure in their Lord and not be afraid of death. Satan no longer holds this power over the saints.

Originally posted by sonship

Typo:

I meant to write:

They overcome Satan [NOT] (edited) by reasoning with him but by proclaiming the real facts of the universe as God's Gospel.

Many servants of God have well pointed this out. I quote here Watchman Nee as one of many who teach this.

The Word of Their Testimony

The second thing is that the brothers overcame him "because of the word of their testimony." When our conscience is without offense, then our mouth can give testimony. When there is an accusation in our conscience, we can utter nothing. It seems that the more we speak, the lower our voice becomes. The meaning of testimony here is to testify to others, not to one's self. When you have the blood before God, you will have boldness before God, and you will have a testimony before man. Not only will you testify that sinners can be forgiven and man can be accepted because of Christ, but you will further testify of God's kingdom. "Testimony" means to tell others what there is in Christ, and the word of testimony is something which must be spoken forth. The overcomers must frequently proclaim the victory of Christ. Satan fears the most when this fact is repeated again and again. It is a fact that the kingdom of heaven will come; it is a fact that the Lord is King; it is a fact that Christ is victorious and forever victorious; it is a fact that Satan is defeated; it is a fact that the strong man has been bound and legally condemned; it is a fact that Christ has destroyed all the work of Satan on the cross. When we declare all of these facts, we have the testimony. When we proclaim that Christ is this and Christ is that, this is the testimony.

From "The Glorious Church" by Watchman Nee, The Collectected Works of Watchman Nee, Living Stream Ministry.

Read some more -

The sister's question, "Do you remember?" is of utmost significance. Her repeated urging of that question was her testimony. If we preach to Satan, he also can preach, and he can do quite a bit of it. If we reason with him, he has all kinds of reasonings. But if we speak the facts, especially the spiritual facts, Satan will be helpless.

We must know the facts in the Scriptures and believe them. We must be covered by the blood so that God may protect us from all the attacks of the enemy. Then we may speak to Satan. Satan fears when we speak the word of testimony to him. In our Christian experience, we sometimes feel so weak that we cannot even pray to God. At such a time we must remember the spiritual facts, the victorious facts. We must proclaim to Satan and his demons that the Lord Jesus is victorious and that Jesus is Lord. Such a proclamation is the testimony, and the testimony is the proclamation. What do we proclaim? We proclaim that Jesus is Lord, that the Lord is victorious, that Satan has been trodden under His feet. We further proclaim that the Lord has given us authority to tread upon serpents and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy. This is the word of testimony. The word of testimony causes Satan to lose his ground. When we give the word of testimony, we give Satan a blow. The work of the Lord has not only given us the blood to protect us, but also the word of testimony by which we can defeat Satan.

http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Let's put aside this nonsense about "true Christians" and untrue Christians.
The bible refers to Christians who are born again as saints. A saint is one who is filled with holy spirit.
So let's just say you are either a saint or you ain't.
Fair enough?

I can agree to that, but what of all of those that are not in that group is there any that you
believe God is going to accept? I say no according to scripture, what say you?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
..Whether they know it or not, those who preach loss of salvation are ministers of Satan, trying to deceive the elect with fear, and making God look like a Taskmaster....

The word 'saint' used in the NT means simply a Christian convert,

- Jesus Christ said that there are names of saints that will be blotted out of the book of life.
- Paul said that there are saints who have tasted of the world to come and who possess the Holy Spirit, but if they fall away they may not be forgiven.
- Peter said that there are saints whose sins whose sins are so grevious that it was better if they did not know of Christ in the first place.

So according to you Checkbaiter, Jesus, Paul and Peter are ministers of Satan

Satan as you well know is an agent of sin. Satan encourages sin by fooling the gullible with false doctrines that run contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ whose doctrine discourages sin. Teachings which are in line with Christ encourages the Christian saint to live godly righteous lives. Satan encourages Christians into a false sense of security by telling them lies such as:
- You already have eternal life
- You cannot sin
- Sin is not held against you
- Not even God can take away that eternal life

The above doctrine encourages sin.... that is the doctrine of Satan. Thats the modus operandi of Satan. This mo of Satan is seen clearly at work in the garden of eden:

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (Genesis 3:1-4 KJV)

God says to Eve dont not eat of that tree otherwise you will die. Satan says do not obey God, you will not die.

It the very same doctrine at work here in many Christian churches:
- Christ says dont sin otherwise you will die, the church says that sin would not be held against, you will not die
- Christ says he will blot out the names of those who do not please him but the church says that cannot be done.
- Christ says to follow His commandments otherwise you will not get eternal life, the church says that is legalistic.

How have Chrstianity become so arrogant and boastful to claim eternal life which is only dispensed at the return of Christ and only given to His righteous saints, only to his sheep, only to the fruitful branches.

How ? Because of Satan. Satan has filled the churches with lies.

The true Christian, the elect of God listen to Christ and follow Him, and Him only.
The elect of God ignores the teachings of the world and hears and OBEYS only the teachings of Jesus.
The false Christian hears and obeys the call to disobedience to Christ. That is the doctrine of Satan.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I can agree to that, but what of all of those that are not in that group is there any that you
believe God is going to accept? I say no according to scripture, what say you?

There are only two groups. Saints = filled with holy spirit= believer=sheep.
And then there are unbelievers =goats=tares.
These are the only two groups I see. One is saved and one is not.

Originally posted by Rajk999
The word 'saint' used in the NT means simply a Christian convert,

- Jesus Christ said that there are names of saints that will be blotted out of the book of life.
- Paul said that there are saints who have tasted of the world to come and who possess the Holy Spirit, but if they fall away they may not be forgiven.
- Peter said that there are sai ...[text shortened]... lse Christian hears and obeys the call to disobedience to Christ. That is the doctrine of Satan.

You realize do you not the Spirit of God resides within the church of God. Are you making
the claim that the Holy Spirit is powerless compared to the devil? I mean Jesus said that
the Spirit of God was sent to us to lead, and teach us.

According to you here the claim is that Satan can fill God's church with lies anyway!?

Who is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords in you opinion?

The devil Satan does indeed fill the world with lies, the world hears him because they
belong to him so who are you listening to?

Originally posted by KellyJay
You realize do you not the Spirit of God resides within the church of God. Are you making
the claim that the Holy Spirit is powerless compared to the devil? I mean Jesus said that
the Spirit of God was sent to us to lead, and teach us.

According to you here the claim is that Satan can fill God's church with lies anyway!?

Who is the King of Kings and ...[text shortened]... he world with lies, the world hears him because they
belong to him so who are you listening to?

The church of God is all those people all over the world who follow after the teachings of Christ and who obey these teachings and commandments.

The church of God is not a building full of Christians.

Satan can fill anyone's head with lies if that person or group choose to listen to Satan's lies. If someone listens to Christ they would not hear Satans lies.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
There are only two groups. Saints = filled with holy spirit= believer=sheep.
And then there are unbelievers =goats=tares.
These are the only two groups I see. One is saved and one is not.

Christ sheep are those who believe Christ, follow Christ and obey Christ.

You have categorically stated that you are NOT obliged to obey Christ as you are in another dispensation called the Administration of Grace.

From The Gospel of God - Volume 2 by Watchman Nee

This pertains to Christians even those who are Christians who may not know they are Christians, or who are reluctant to take a stand under that label.

MERCY AND JUDGMENT

We know that our God is a righteous God. In the future, at the judgment seat, He will judge us according to righteousness. However, though there is righteousness at the judgment seat, there is mercy also. If you show mercy to others, the Lord will be merciful to you. If you are unforgiving toward others, and if you are so righteous and unyielding toward others' failures and weaknesses, the Lord will deal with you in righteousness in that day. If you are merciful to others, the Lord will show mercy to you. Luke 6:37 says that if you do not pass sentence on others, sentence will not be passed on you; if you will not judge others, you will not be judged, and if you forgive others, you will be forgiven. Some Christians are too mean today. When they criticize others they scrutinize every mistake others make. When they do their best to criticize and judge others, they have to be careful. In the future God will deal with them in the same way they deal with others. With what measure you measure to others, it will be measured to you. If you give to others good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over, the Lord will give to you in the same way. He who forgives will be forgiven, and to him who shows mercy, mercy will be shown.

http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n

This pertains to the reward or discipline during the millennial period of 1,000 years.

Cont. From The Gospel of God, Volume 2 by Watchman Nee

Pertaining again to Christians before the judgment seat of Christ for reward or punishment during the millennium.

JUDGMENT AND MERCY Cont.

Hence, the Bible says that mercy triumphs over judgment (James 2:13). There is one thing which even judgment cannot triumph over—a person showing mercy to others throughout his entire life. We cannot be without mistakes. But if we show mercy to others today, God will be unable to deal with us. Many Christians are not able to lose in their dealings with others. They argue all the time with others. They give little ground to others and grant themselves all the ground. But we should rather show mercy to others today. When the time of judgment comes, there will be some whom even the Lord of judgment will not be able to hold anything against. This does not mean that man can purposely change God's commandment. It simply means that if you are merciful to others while you are living on earth, God will be merciful to you. Your mercy today will triumph over your judgment tomorrow. The way you judge others will be the way that you will be judged. This grace is righteous. The way you treat others will be the way that the Lord will treat you. The way you treat others will fashion for you a vessel, with which God will measure out judgment to you. James 2:13 says, "For the judgment is without mercy to him who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment." Those who show no mercy to others will be judged without mercy. But those who show mercy to others will triumph over judgment. Your mercy will surpass the judgment. This is an amazing fact.

Matthew 18 shows us clearly that God's children can still fall into the hand of the torturers. If they do, they will have to remain there until they pay off all their debts. Of course, there is no way to pay off all the debts. But at least one day they will learn to be merciful and to forgive others in the same way that the Lord showed mercy to them and forgave them. By then they will still have to show mercy to others. Hence, in verse 35 the Lord says, "So also will My heavenly Father do to you if each of you does not forgive his brother from your hearts." This portion of the Word is not spoken to unbelievers, but to Christians. It shows the relationship between the heavenly Father and His children and the relationship between the brothers.

http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n

Originally posted by sonship
From [b] The Gospel of God - Volume 2 by Watchman Nee

This pertains to Christians even those who are Christians who may not know they are Christians, or who are reluctant to take a stand under that label.

[quote] MERCY AND JUDGMENT

We know that our God is a righteous God. In the future, at the judgment seat, He will judge us according ...[text shortened]... cfm?n

This pertains to the reward or discipline during the millennial period of 1,000 years.[/b]

And you sonship is guilty of pronouncing judgment on all people by your statement that all non Christians will be tortured in fire for all eternity.

I have repeatedly told you the following :
- that Christ will judge
- let Christ judge
- dont claim that you already have eternal life
- let Christ judge you as well

Christians constantly pronouce judgment on others by saying that they alone have faith in Christ and they alone believe in Christ..

Let Christ be the righteous judge of who is faithful and who believes and who is worthy of eternal life.

Originally posted by Rajk999

And you sonship is guilty of pronouncing judgment on all people by your statement that all non Christians will be tortured in fire for all eternity.

I am responsible for believing and teaching Rev. 20:15. And will have to answer to the Lord Jesus for so teaching.

And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire."

Please go back and read Brother Nee's word above carefully. Then come back to your examination of the subject.

I have repeatedly told you the following :
- that Christ will judge

Nothing I have said here circumvents Christ from judging.
In fact it so warns as Paul also warned.

- let Christ judge

What have I written which in any way undermines the authority of Christ to carry out ANY judgment ?

Nothing I have written circumvents or tries to replace Him as the Righteous Judge.

- dont claim that you already have eternal life

I will claim that I have eternal life because it would be a lie to deny it.

The Apostle John did not say that he wrote these things that we may have doubt, be wishy washy and have some kind of false humility that makes us timid to say we have eternal life. Look again at what Christ's apostle writes.

"He who has the Son has the life, he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

THESE THINGS I WRITE TO YOU THAT YOU MAY KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:12,13)

That me! You should rejoice with me. I believe into the name of the Son of God. I have the Son of God. So why shouldn't I stand upon the truth of God ?

Like Paul I want to gain Christ. I need to grow in my enjoyment of this life. I need to stand upon this joyful proclamation to live Christ.

- let Christ judge you as well

"I write these things to you that you may know that you have eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God."

Not "think".
Not "hope".
Not "see how it all turns out".
Not even "assume" or be cautiously optimistic.

Once again:

"I write these things to you that you may KNOW that you have eternal life."

I know that I have eternal life.
I encourage others to have the assurance once they have truly believed into the name of the Son of God.

Christians constantly pronouce judgment on others by saying that they alone have faith in Christ and they alone believe in Christ..

I never said I ALONE have faith in Christ. How absurd to suggest this.

Let Christ be the righteous judge of who is faithful and who believes and who is worthy of eternal life.

Nothing I said robs Christ or undermines His authority in that realm. Besides it says that He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Why not shout from the housetops that Jesus is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness that we may have eternal life in Him ?

And should I not receive the Apostle John's word ? Jesus said to receive His apostle is to receive Him and God Who sent Him.

"Truly, truly, I say to you. He who receive whomever I shall send receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me." (John 13:20)

So I certainly receive the Apostle John's teaching in First John 5:12,13. Get use to some Christians having the assurance of eternal life.

Now I explained that the warning of the erasing of a Christian's name from the book of life, I believe is a temporary discipline and not an eternal one.

Remember what I explained about how the name of the tribe of Dan was temporarily excluded from the list of the twelve tribes? Yet it appeared again after a temporary erasing.

Originally posted by Rajk999
The church of God is all those people all over the world who follow after the teachings of Christ and who obey these teachings and commandments.

The church of God is not a building full of Christians.

Satan can fill anyone's head with lies if that person or group choose to listen to Satan's lies. If someone listens to Christ they would not hear Satans lies.

You can follow Christ teaching and avoid Christ! I can follow anyone's teaching and not
ever meet the person whose teaching I'm following. There are going to be people who
stand before God and tell him, in your name we did this or that, and Jesus is going to
say depart from me I never knew you. What you cannot do is live a life of Godliness
if you do not have God in your life. As Jesus says those that do not believe in Him are
what?

No one said that the church of God was a building full of Christians, what I did say is that
a Christian has God in him or her, there is a difference.

Satan can lie, but God tells the truth, and if God is in you and has begun a good work in
you, don't you think God can complete it? Satan lies and those that buy into them are
those that belong to him, Jesus said His sheep knows His voice.

You realize I hope that God does play an active part in our lives do you not? You think that
Satan can steal us away from God? We may get tricked, we may stumble, but God is
there to see us through the good and bad times in this life.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You can follow Christ teaching and avoid Christ! I can follow anyone's teaching and not
ever meet the person whose teaching I'm following. There are going to be people who
stand before God and tell him, in your name we did this or that, and Jesus is going to
say depart from me I never knew you. What you cannot do is live a life of Godliness
if you do no ...[text shortened]... ricked, we may stumble, but God is
there to see us through the good and bad times in this life.

Christ knows his sheep.
Not all Christians are sheep, like Christians love to assume.
End of story.