Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Shrug. It's easy. Just believe that he really DID say all that stuff about caring for the poor and sick, and all the stuff about him rising from the dead and ascending to heaven were tall tales.

Yeah, picking and choosing. I don't think He'd totally agree with you. How about just believing He was sent from God?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Many of you Jehovh's Witnesses are still living in the past by trying not to be a part of the present world. Today, we have better ways to communicate quickly around the world to preach the gospel. We have telecommunications methods such as telephone and television, whereas the disciples had to walk door to door or tel-a-woman.

Christians are spreading ...[text shortened]... urately than you and your Watchtower cult.

http://www.goforchrist.org/middle_east_projects

You know, I was with you right up to "tel-a-woman".

You can never leave well enough alone, can you? You have to keep going until everyone thinks you're an idiot.

Originally posted by divegeester
Millions around the world subscribe to the delusion that being a member of an organisation somehow either validates their Christianity or actually provides them with it. Other remain in religious organisations because they are are captives of the fear that leaving will nullify their Christianity and lose them their friends and family. These organisations are the worst of the worst; religious prisons with walls as real as any place of incarceration.

You would do well, I believe, with the Society of Friends, aka the Quakers.

I used to think somewhat like you, that one does not need an organization to keep them right with God. But humans thrive under fellowship, with association with like-minded people. You do not have to associate with those you find to be false in their belief or just "going through the motions" because they believe that doing so gets them safely "in the club".

You can get the benefits of being in a group of Christians without suckling up to the teat of corporate religion. It IS possible. I hope you will think about it.

Originally posted by C Hess
Yeah, that's what I call a common sensical atheist, or atheist for short. It's not like jebus
was the first and only to suggest we treat others well. I think to call someone a christian, is
to say that this someone believes in jebus the supernatural, spiritual saviour, which
obviously an atheist don't.

Yes, we believe in everything He brought to the table, not just the small part of it we happen to individually like. He certainly didn't advocate that, either.

Originally posted by divegeester
Murder is called out in the bible as wrong and yet god sent the Hebrews into bloody wars many times. I don't understand this. To murder someone is abhorrent but I don't know why other than I've been brought up that way and it seems obviously wrong. I struggle to explain why.

Why would I disobey god? This is easy. Firstly I'm not particularly obedient ...[text shortened]... y kill to save the life of my nearest and dearest. But is that murder? Is killing always murder?

Killing in warfare is not murder, simple. This is not to say that murder never happens in warfare. Murder is the result of a wanton disregard for human life. That is the sin. There are psychopaths and sociopaths on the battlefield, too. But most soldiers are not murderers. Some come home with so much guilt over taking human lives that they later commit suicide. This happens all too often, especially if the reasons for war are murky, as in the Irag/Afghanistan conflicts, Vietnam, and even Korea.

Originally posted by divegeester
This is a fascinating topic and one that got some airing a few weeks ago with FMF you may remember. Christianity is split on this and it is contentious, but my view is that once you are born into a family you cannot be unborn from it. Spiritual DNA (my made up term of course) defines whether or not a person has been reborn. I do not believe that a perso ...[text shortened]... is life and yet was a men after gods own heart.

I'll respond on the murder thing separately.

The main differentiation is unrepentant sin.

Even Christians who fall and take on sin they are not repentant for risk their salvation.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Jews can be Jewish by descent, by culture or by faith. Why not the same for Christians?

Because there is no "Christian" race.

Christ came that ALL men (the "Gentiles" as well as Jew) might find life.

ALL men. Race makes no difference. Faith makes the difference.

Originally posted by Suzianne
You would do well, I believe, with the Society of Friends, aka the Quakers.

I used to think somewhat like you, that one does not need an organization to keep them right with God. But humans thrive under fellowship, with association with like-minded people. You do not have to associate with those you find to be false in their belief or just "going throu ...[text shortened]... suckling up to the teat of corporate religion. It IS possible. I hope you will think about it.

I'm sure it is and have met such groups. But these are not the ones I was replying to Galveston about.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Even Christians who fall and take on sin they are not repentant for risk their salvation.

I don't accept that for a number of reasons. David was completely unrepentant ... Until he was repentant. God knows the beginning from the end. Salvation is not dependent on us neither for it nor to keep it. It is a FREE gift acquired through faith.

Besides, define "risk" in this scenario?

Originally posted by Suzianne
You know, I was with you right up to "tel-a-woman".

You can never leave well enough alone, can you? You have to keep going until everyone thinks you're an idiot.

Don't take offense. That was only meant as a joke to lighten things up. I heard someone else tell a joke like that before and it just happened to come to mind. Please forgive me. I meant no harm to women.

Originally posted by divegeester
To be clear, are you talking about the thread "a life saved from the madness" send my exchanges with Kelly?

Correct.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Killing in warfare is not murder, simple.

I would think that it is for the aggressor - although the leaders are more to blame than the soldiers.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Many of you Jehovh's Witnesses are still living in the past by trying not to be a part of the present world. Today, we have better ways to communicate quickly around the world to preach the gospel. We have telecommunications methods such as telephone and television, whereas the disciples had to walk door to door or tel-a-woman.

Christians are spreading ...[text shortened]... urately than you and your Watchtower cult.

http://www.goforchrist.org/middle_east_projects

Truely amazing... Jesus clearly said what to do and did it himself but yet you and others here condemn it and in fact have nothing to do with it. I bet you've never talked to your neighbors just within your own block much less your neighborhood or city much less the world. Could just care less, right?

You see there is a reason why we go door to door just as JESUS DID. It's to personally teach and to be able to answer questions as they come up and to show from the bible the answers.
If this style of hands on teaching does not work, then close all the schools public and private, universities, etc and just broadcast those subjects over the airwaves, telephones and whatever easy way out pleases you?
I'll tell you exactly why you condemn it as well as others here......Your lazy, guilty of neglecting Jesus's commands and frankly don't have the knowledge to teach if you tried and are ready to condemn those who actully do the WORK Jesus did.
Your on your own trying to figure out the bible and fall short constantly and that is a result of not having the support an organization has with the backing of God's help and direction.
So condemn all you want and make all the excuses you can make up for your short comings. Doesn't matter to me.

This thread is about what it is to a Christian? Read Jesus words, follow them "exactly as he stated" not as you want or whatever it is your willing to do and not do because it's too hard or it's not what the churches in general are doing which are nothing more then "white washed graves" anyway. Pretty to look at but not worth an ounce of spirituality in them.

Originally posted by galveston75
Truely amazing... Jesus clearly said what to do and did it himself but yet you and others here condemn it and in fact have nothing to do with it. I bet you've never talked to your neighbors just within your own block much less your neighborhood or city much less the world. Could just care less, right?

You see there is a reason why we go door to doo ...[text shortened]... "white washed graves" anyway. Pretty to look at but not worth an ounce of spirituality in them.

I think what he is saying is more along the lines of: You're not doing as Jesus commanded. He commanded to go out and teach truth. What you guys are pushing is your version of the truth.

Originally posted by divegeester
I don't accept that for a number of reasons. David was completely unrepentant ... Until he was repentant. God knows the beginning from the end. Salvation is not dependent on us neither for it nor to keep it. It is a FREE gift acquired through faith.

Besides, define "risk" in this scenario?

Salvation, per se, only became possible through Christ's sinless blood sacrifice. This is the difference between the *New* Testament (or Covenant) and the *Old* Testament. It's the *only* way we gentiles can possibly obtain salvation.

Before Christ, salvation was mainly obtained through earning God's favor, which was a pretty tall order in those days. And it was only a thing for the Jews, already God's *chosen* people. A lot of it was birthright, and then you had to screw up pretty big time to lose it. Thus Esau lost God's favor along with his birthright, even as Jacob gained it.

The "risk" I was speaking of is the risk of loss of salvation. I think what I said was clear, whether you agree or not. Even Christians who fall and take on sin for which they refuse to be repentant for are at risk of losing their salvation. My point is that the dividing line now is the matter of unrepentant sin and not whether you have "God's favor" or not.