1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    01 Dec '14 19:14
    An Invitation

    Would any objective thinkers who are active contributors to this forum be interested in discussing the biblical account of the angelic creation in eternity past; Lucifer's arrogant rebellion; the third of the angelic host who shared his desire to replace the very God who created them; and its impact on human history? Please indicate Yea or Nay in your initial reply. Thanks.
  2. Standard memberDeepThought
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    01 Dec '14 20:16
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]An Invitation

    Would any objective thinkers who are active contributors to this forum be interested in discussing the biblical account of the angelic creation in eternity past; Lucifer's arrogant rebellion; the third of the angelic host who shared his desire to replace the very God who created them; and its impact on human history? Please indicate Yea or Nay in your initial reply. Thanks.[/b]
    At a spectator level I'd be interested in reading about it as I didn't realise there was much in the Bible about it. I quite like the start of both the Old and New Testaments, but just could never quite get through the later prophets in the OT and anything after Acts in the NT apart from Revelation as I always felt I was being moralised at - which I don't get from the earlier books of either Testament. So put me down as a reader.
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    01 Dec '14 20:22
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]An Invitation

    Would any objective thinkers who are active contributors to this forum be interested in discussing the biblical account of the angelic creation in eternity past; Lucifer's arrogant rebellion; the third of the angelic host who shared his desire to replace the very God who created them; and its impact on human history? Please indicate Yea or Nay in your initial reply. Thanks.[/b]
    Sure, but what is to be discussed?
    The angels were created before man and applauded at God's further creation of the earth and mankind.
    Lucifer wanted man's worship to go to him instead of the true God.
    Without Lucifer's rebellion in the Garden of Eden (or perhaps even before) man's history as we know it would not have happened.
    Instead of the disaster we see today, the earth would be a paradise (all or a portion depending on how fast mankind worked) and it would be filled with a happy perfect human race.
    I think you would agree with that, but what else is there to discuss?
    What aspect do you have in mind?
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    01 Dec '14 20:28
    Originally posted by roigam
    Sure, but what is to be discussed?
    The angels were created before man and applauded at God's further creation of the earth and mankind.
    Lucifer wanted man's worship to go to him instead of the true God.
    Without Lucifer's rebellion in the Garden of Eden (or perhaps even before) man's history as we know it would not have happened.
    Instead of the disaster we ...[text shortened]... you would agree with that, but what else is there to discuss?
    What aspect do you have in mind?
    Oh, I guess I didn't include the 1/3 of the angels (no doubt symbolic of a large number) that went with Lucifer. Those would be what man refers to as the demons. They will be destroyed along with Lucifer (Satan, the Devil) at the end when the True God renders His final judgment against all the rebels.
  5. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    01 Dec '14 20:28
    My thanks to both DeepThought and roigam for your genuine early interest. First order of business is to achieve a quorum.
  6. Standard memberRemoved
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    01 Dec '14 23:50
    An article that may be of interest....
    http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/what-does-the-bible-say-about-angels
  7. Donationrwingett
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    02 Dec '14 02:43
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]An Invitation

    Would any objective thinkers who are active contributors to this forum be interested in discussing the biblical account of the angelic creation in eternity past; Lucifer's arrogant rebellion; the third of the angelic host who shared his desire to replace the very God who created them; and its impact on human history? Please indicate Yea or Nay in your initial reply. Thanks.[/b]
    Better to reign in Hell, than to serve in Heaven.

    -John Milton, Paradise Lost
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    02 Dec '14 12:29
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]An Invitation

    Would any objective thinkers who are active contributors to this forum be interested in discussing the biblical account of the angelic creation in eternity past; Lucifer's arrogant rebellion; the third of the angelic host who shared his desire to replace the very God who created them; and its impact on human history? Please indicate Yea or Nay in your initial reply. Thanks.[/b]
    I will participate in the discussion.
    May the Lord Jesus be glorified.
  9. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    02 Dec '14 18:00
    Believe there are several other active contributors who may be interested. So, let's wait a few more days before we begin. There are no ground rules per se; only an expectation that mutual common courtesy and thoughtfulness of others with different views will be observed. With a biblical subject of this scope and depth, format considerations will be required to encourage maximum focus with minimal confusion. The first will be to recognize and remember that our subject has four chronological components: 1) The biblical account of the angelic creation in eternity past; 2) Lucifer's arrogant rebellion;
    3) The third of the angelic host who shared his desire to replace the very God who created them; 4) Its impact on human history, which will be discussed individually in their progressive sequence. Thanks for your interest. -Bob
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    02 Dec '14 18:301 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Better to reign in Hell, than to serve in Heaven.

    -John Milton, Paradise Lost
    I never read Milton's Paradise Lost. But this should be the words put into the mouth of the Devil? Am I right?

    Well, for those of us who get informed not by religious fiction but by the Bible, Satan is NOT going to "reign" in hell anyway.

    Let's be biblical here - "And the devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimestone, where also the beast and the false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (Rev. 20:10)

    It is the Devil who wants people to THINK that he will "reign in hell". No, he will be tormented day and night forever and ever in the lake of fire, not rule or reign there.

    And he is not now in hell. So do not go to Paradise Lost to get any reliable information about this.
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    02 Dec '14 18:511 edit
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]An Invitation

    Would any objective thinkers who are active contributors to this forum be interested in discussing the biblical account of the angelic creation in eternity past; Lucifer's arrogant rebellion; the third of the angelic host who shared his desire to replace the very God who created them; and its impact on human history? Please indicate Yea or Nay in your initial reply. Thanks.[/b]
    It seems to me that an objective discussion could be had without getting into whether the events and beings involved are real events and beings. In the same manner, we could discuss the events and beings in Shakespeare's Hamlet without having to agree on their historicity. Just agreeing on the basic story might be quite enough. However, I am not well versed enough to contribute anything. If someone has a link to a cast of characters and a timeline of the Biblical account, that could be helpful.

    edit:

    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread530366/pg1

    "Chronology of Creation in the Bible... it doesn't start in Genesis!"
  12. Standard membersonship
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    02 Dec '14 19:30
    Originally posted by JS357
    It seems to me that an objective discussion could be had without getting into whether the events and beings involved are real events and beings. In the same manner, we could discuss the events and beings in Shakespeare's Hamlet without having to agree on their historicity. Just agreeing on the basic story might be quite enough. However, I am not well versed en ...[text shortened]... /forum/thread530366/pg1

    "Chronology of Creation in the Bible... it doesn't start in Genesis!"
    That is understood by me.

    I read through the website and found it well presented.
    Many of the thoughts there I do also hold.
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    03 Dec '14 00:00
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]An Invitation

    Would any objective thinkers who are active contributors to this forum be interested in discussing the biblical account of the angelic creation in eternity past; Lucifer's arrogant rebellion; the third of the angelic host who shared his desire to replace the very God who created them; and its impact on human history? Please indicate Yea or Nay in your initial reply. Thanks.[/b]
    Yes Grampy. I'm not an active contributor but I would be interested in this topic. 🙂
  14. Donationrwingett
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    03 Dec '14 00:41
    Originally posted by sonship
    I never read Milton's [b]Paradise Lost. But this should be the words put into the mouth of the Devil? Am I right?

    Well, for those of us who get informed not by religious fiction but by the Bible, Satan is NOT going to "reign" in hell anyway.

    Let's be biblical here - "And the devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brim ...[text shortened]... ot now in hell. So do not go to [b]Paradise Lost to get any reliable information about this.[/b]
    Really? Well, tell me, how much of Grampy Bobby's OP was drawn from the bible, and how much of it was drawn from Paradise Lost?
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    03 Dec '14 00:531 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    I never read Milton's [b]Paradise Lost. But this should be the words put into the mouth of the Devil? Am I right?

    Well, for those of us who get informed not by religious fiction but by the Bible, Satan is NOT going to "reign" in hell anyway.

    Let's be biblical here - "And the devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brim ...[text shortened]... ot now in hell. So do not go to [b]Paradise Lost to get any reliable information about this.[/b]
    But then why should we listen to you?

    The problem here is that if someone constructs a different reading of the story, that reading can be criticized the same way. So in parallel to what you say, we are advised not to "go to any (other person's) written or verbal account of the story to get reliable information about this". We are all left to be alone in our understanding of the story, mediated only by the putative God. If the devil is lurking everywhere, there is no good reason to engage in discussion, and there is every good reason to avoid it.
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